'69 Dash voltage limiter ??
#3066422
08/09/22 12:44 AM
08/09/22 12:44 AM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 965 S.W. Pennsylvania
markrr
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
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Posts: 965
S.W. Pennsylvania
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Why did Chrysler reduce the voltage from 12 to 5 volts supplying the gauges in a 69 Plymouth? And, why does the 5 volts "pulse" and not stay steady when it's measured?
Last edited by markrr; 08/09/22 12:45 AM.
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Re: '69 Dash voltage limiter ??
[Re: markrr]
#3066435
08/09/22 04:59 AM
08/09/22 04:59 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
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Not just Mopars but also Fords
Back in the days even the transistors were already invented transistorized systems weren't a standard electronic supply to make anything and were part of bigger setups ( valves were still somehow standard ). The alternator regulator was also a points system
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: '69 Dash voltage limiter ??
[Re: markrr]
#3066535
08/09/22 01:08 PM
08/09/22 01:08 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
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Pulsing the voltage to those two instruments makes sure they don't overheat is what I was told years ago at one of the old Mopar drag race seminars: up:
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 08/09/22 01:09 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: '69 Dash voltage limiter ??
[Re: Sniper]
#3066553
08/09/22 02:16 PM
08/09/22 02:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,138 East Aurora (Buffalo) NY
RoadRunner
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The instrument voltage regulator is nothing more than a bimetallic strip that makes and breaks the connection between the 12v source and the gauges. It supplies an average 5v (approximately) to the gauges. That is what heats up and cools off, nothing to do with the gauges heating up.
Why did they use that? It's cheap, it works and it is sufficient unto the day. Nothing more. I am sure it was developed in the 50's when they converted to 12v and your other option was a vacuum tube, not optimal at all. remember transistors were barely 10 years from having been invented. By providing the gauges with a run voltage less than 12v you can eliminate the effect of the charging system voltage fluctuations on the gauge readings.
Mid 30s saw the advent of voltage regulators. As cars started adding electrical features, there was a need to be able to supply those loads and maintain a battery. Though the transistor was invented in 1947, it would be 20 years later before the solid state voltage regulator would be invented. Given the newness of the technology, I am sure it was much higher costs than the analog regulators used at the time.
68 Road Runner (383/4speed, post car w/decor pkg) - Major Project 69 Road Runner w/472 Hemi & 4 speed. 70 Challenger R/T SE EF8 w/ V9J, U - A32 - Major Project 2023 Ford Mach 1
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Re: '69 Dash voltage limiter ??
[Re: RoadRunner]
#3066559
08/09/22 02:28 PM
08/09/22 02:28 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,240 nowhere
Sniper
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master
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The instrument voltage regulator is nothing more than a bimetallic strip that makes and breaks the connection between the 12v source and the gauges. It supplies an average 5v (approximately) to the gauges. That is what heats up and cools off, nothing to do with the gauges heating up.
Why did they use that? It's cheap, it works and it is sufficient unto the day. Nothing more. I am sure it was developed in the 50's when they converted to 12v and your other option was a vacuum tube, not optimal at all. remember transistors were barely 10 years from having been invented. By providing the gauges with a run voltage less than 12v you can eliminate the effect of the charging system voltage fluctuations on the gauge readings.
Mid 30s saw the advent of voltage regulators. As cars started adding electrical features, there was a need to be able to supply those loads and maintain a battery. Though the transistor was invented in 1947, it would be 20 years later before the solid state voltage regulator would be invented. Given the newness of the technology, I am sure it was much higher costs than the analog regulators used at the time. We are not talking about the generator or alternator regulator. We are talking about the instrument voltage regulator. In the 30-40-50's the gauges were mechanical, except for the ammeter so there was no need for an IVR.
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Re: '69 Dash voltage limiter ??
[Re: Sniper]
#3066656
08/09/22 08:11 PM
08/09/22 08:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,415 UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
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I Live Here
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The instrument voltage regulator is nothing more than a bimetallic strip that makes and breaks the connection between the 12v source and the gauges. It supplies an average 5v (approximately) to the gauges. That is what heats up and cools off, nothing to do with the gauges heating up.
Why did they use that? It's cheap, it works and it is sufficient unto the day. Nothing more. I am sure it was developed in the 50's when they converted to 12v and your other option was a vacuum tube, not optimal at all. remember transistors were barely 10 years from having been invented. By providing the gauges with a run voltage less than 12v you can eliminate the effect of the charging system voltage fluctuations on the gauge readings.
If it sticks closed those gauges will peg and eventually destroy their selves from the heated overload.
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Re: '69 Dash voltage limiter ??
[Re: NITROUSN]
#3066742
08/10/22 08:22 AM
08/10/22 08:22 AM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,240 nowhere
Sniper
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master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,240
nowhere
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The instrument voltage regulator is nothing more than a bimetallic strip that makes and breaks the connection between the 12v source and the gauges. It supplies an average 5v (approximately) to the gauges. That is what heats up and cools off, nothing to do with the gauges heating up.
Why did they use that? It's cheap, it works and it is sufficient unto the day. Nothing more. I am sure it was developed in the 50's when they converted to 12v and your other option was a vacuum tube, not optimal at all. remember transistors were barely 10 years from having been invented. By providing the gauges with a run voltage less than 12v you can eliminate the effect of the charging system voltage fluctuations on the gauge readings.
If it sticks closed those gauges will peg and eventually destroy their selves from the heated overload. That's a failure mode, not how it normally operates. There are electronic equivalents these days, if that is a worry for you. https://www.classicindustries.com/product/ivr607.html
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Re: '69 Dash voltage limiter ??
[Re: Sniper]
#3066757
08/10/22 09:44 AM
08/10/22 09:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,415 UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,415
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The instrument voltage regulator is nothing more than a bimetallic strip that makes and breaks the connection between the 12v source and the gauges. It supplies an average 5v (approximately) to the gauges. That is what heats up and cools off, nothing to do with the gauges heating up.
Why did they use that? It's cheap, it works and it is sufficient unto the day. Nothing more. I am sure it was developed in the 50's when they converted to 12v and your other option was a vacuum tube, not optimal at all. remember transistors were barely 10 years from having been invented. By providing the gauges with a run voltage less than 12v you can eliminate the effect of the charging system voltage fluctuations on the gauge readings.
If it sticks closed those gauges will peg and eventually destroy their selves from the heated overload. That's a failure mode, not how it normally operates. There are electronic equivalents these days, if that is a worry for you. https://www.classicindustries.com/product/ivr607.html Point is when they fail the gauge pegs and burns out from overheating. And the solid state electronic can fail also.
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Re: '69 Dash voltage limiter ??
[Re: NITROUSN]
#3066778
08/10/22 10:34 AM
08/10/22 10:34 AM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,240 nowhere
Sniper
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master
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Posts: 6,240
nowhere
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The instrument voltage regulator is nothing more than a bimetallic strip that makes and breaks the connection between the 12v source and the gauges. It supplies an average 5v (approximately) to the gauges. That is what heats up and cools off, nothing to do with the gauges heating up.
Why did they use that? It's cheap, it works and it is sufficient unto the day. Nothing more. I am sure it was developed in the 50's when they converted to 12v and your other option was a vacuum tube, not optimal at all. remember transistors were barely 10 years from having been invented. By providing the gauges with a run voltage less than 12v you can eliminate the effect of the charging system voltage fluctuations on the gauge readings.
If it sticks closed those gauges will peg and eventually destroy their selves from the heated overload. That's a failure mode, not how it normally operates. There are electronic equivalents these days, if that is a worry for you. https://www.classicindustries.com/product/ivr607.html Point is when they fail the gauge pegs and burns out from overheating. And the solid state electronic can fail also. Point is irrelevant. The discussion what about how they work, not how they fail, everything fails.
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Re: '69 Dash voltage limiter ??
[Re: NITROUSN]
#3066905
08/10/22 08:12 PM
08/10/22 08:12 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562 Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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The instrument voltage regulator is nothing more than a bimetallic strip that makes and breaks the connection between the 12v source and the gauges. It supplies an average 5v (approximately) to the gauges. That is what heats up and cools off, nothing to do with the gauges heating up.
Why did they use that? It's cheap, it works and it is sufficient unto the day. Nothing more. I am sure it was developed in the 50's when they converted to 12v and your other option was a vacuum tube, not optimal at all. remember transistors were barely 10 years from having been invented. By providing the gauges with a run voltage less than 12v you can eliminate the effect of the charging system voltage fluctuations on the gauge readings.
If it sticks closed those gauges will peg and eventually destroy their selves from the heated overload. That's a failure mode, not how it normally operates. There are electronic equivalents these days, if that is a worry for you. https://www.classicindustries.com/product/ivr607.html Point is when they fail the gauge pegs and burns out from overheating. And the solid state electronic can fail also. I'm pretty sure when a solid state device fails, it fails open. Kevin
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Re: '69 Dash voltage limiter ??
[Re: NITROUSN]
#3071290
08/25/22 08:36 AM
08/25/22 08:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 177 Ontario Canada
Bennoel 10
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member
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 177
Ontario Canada
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The instrument voltage regulator is nothing more than a bimetallic strip that makes and breaks the connection between the 12v source and the gauges. It supplies an average 5v (approximately) to the gauges. That is what heats up and cools off, nothing to do with the gauges heating up.
Why did they use that? It's cheap, it works and it is sufficient unto the day. Nothing more. I am sure it was developed in the 50's when they converted to 12v and your other option was a vacuum tube, not optimal at all. remember transistors were barely 10 years from having been invented. By providing the gauges with a run voltage less than 12v you can eliminate the effect of the charging system voltage fluctuations on the gauge readings.
If it sticks closed those gauges will peg and eventually destroy their selves from the heated overload. Wondering if this might be my issue ?? I have a 71 Duster with the factory rally dash. The issue I have is two fold.... first the dash lights are very dim but the radio lights up good. Tried a new headlight switch thinking that might be the problem. Recently the oil pressure gauge reads high all the time. Starts out okay, especially at idle but after a while and the engine is at normal temperature it reads high. Needle is reading at the very extreme high point. Also the temperature gauge is reading higher than usual but not to the point that it's dangerous. Sometimes I think the Alt guage is off but it seems to be acting properly. Gas gauge always seems to go down quickly especially at these prices. LOL. Fuel gauge seems okay. Just wondering if the volt meter that your talking about is also what is giving me grief ?? It's never been replaced by me in the 25 or so years I have owned the car. Thanks for any help. Bennoel
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Re: '69 Dash voltage limiter ??
[Re: Bennoel 10]
#3071359
08/25/22 12:53 PM
08/25/22 12:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,348 Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,348
Omaha Ne
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The instrument voltage regulator is nothing more than a bimetallic strip that makes and breaks the connection between the 12v source and the gauges. It supplies an average 5v (approximately) to the gauges. That is what heats up and cools off, nothing to do with the gauges heating up.
Why did they use that? It's cheap, it works and it is sufficient unto the day. Nothing more. I am sure it was developed in the 50's when they converted to 12v and your other option was a vacuum tube, not optimal at all. remember transistors were barely 10 years from having been invented. By providing the gauges with a run voltage less than 12v you can eliminate the effect of the charging system voltage fluctuations on the gauge readings.
If it sticks closed those gauges will peg and eventually destroy their selves from the heated overload. Wondering if this might be my issue ?? I have a 71 Duster with the factory rally dash. The issue I have is two fold.... first the dash lights are very dim but the radio lights up good. Tried a new headlight switch thinking that might be the problem. Recently the oil pressure gauge reads high all the time. Starts out okay, especially at idle but after a while and the engine is at normal temperature it reads high. Needle is reading at the very extreme high point. Also the temperature gauge is reading higher than usual but not to the point that it's dangerous. Sometimes I think the Alt guage is off but it seems to be acting properly. Gas gauge always seems to go down quickly especially at these prices. LOL. Fuel gauge seems okay. Just wondering if the volt meter that your talking about is also what is giving me grief ?? It's never been replaced by me in the 25 or so years I have owned the car. Thanks for any help. Bennoel I suspect the ground to instrument panel is your culprit. I would start by verifying all connections and mounting screws on the circuit board(s) /film are tight. I am not overly familiar with this particular cluster but a quick look at the circuit films appear as though it gets grounding from multiple attachment points on the circuit film. Make sure the cluster itself is well grounded as well.
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Re: '69 Dash voltage limiter ??
[Re: TJP]
#3071383
08/25/22 02:29 PM
08/25/22 02:29 PM
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 177 Ontario Canada
Bennoel 10
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 177
Ontario Canada
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The instrument voltage regulator is nothing more than a bimetallic strip that makes and breaks the connection between the 12v source and the gauges. It supplies an average 5v (approximately) to the gauges. That is what heats up and cools off, nothing to do with the gauges heating up.
Why did they use that? It's cheap, it works and it is sufficient unto the day. Nothing more. I am sure it was developed in the 50's when they converted to 12v and your other option was a vacuum tube, not optimal at all. remember transistors were barely 10 years from having been invented. By providing the gauges with a run voltage less than 12v you can eliminate the effect of the charging system voltage fluctuations on the gauge readings.
If it sticks closed those gauges will peg and eventually destroy their selves from the heated overload. Wondering if this might be my issue ?? I have a 71 Duster with the factory rally dash. The issue I have is two fold.... first the dash lights are very dim but the radio lights up good. Tried a new headlight switch thinking that might be the problem. Recently the oil pressure gauge reads high all the time. Starts out okay, especially at idle but after a while and the engine is at normal temperature it reads high. Needle is reading at the very extreme high point. Also the temperature gauge is reading higher than usual but not to the point that it's dangerous. Sometimes I think the Alt guage is off but it seems to be acting properly. Gas gauge always seems to go down quickly especially at these prices. LOL. Fuel gauge seems okay. Just wondering if the volt meter that your talking about is also what is giving me grief ?? It's never been replaced by me in the 25 or so years I have owned the car. Thanks for any help. Bennoel I suspect the ground to instrument panel is your culprit. I would start by verifying all connections and mounting screws on the circuit board(s) /film are tight. I am not overly familiar with this particular cluster but a quick look at the circuit films appear as though it gets grounding from multiple attachment points on the circuit film. Make sure the cluster itself is well grounded as well. I was told that it might be the printed circuit board and I got one to replace the original one. I'm gonna take the whole speedo cluster out to install a factory dash tach and at this point I would like to rectify all the issues as it's not what I call an easy job. Getting hard to work upside down and in tight quarters. Might just replace the volt limiter and be done with it. Thanks for the suggestions.
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