Re: rod weights
[Re: rebel]
#3038412
04/30/22 07:34 AM
04/30/22 07:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,999 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Not an expert hear, but i thought of it this way. If you put a replacement rod with the extra gram weight in cylinders one and eight, the extra weight is out where the least transferred stress would occur. When you consider you are only adding 12 grams to the sum total of all four journals, ( bob weight 2200 x 4) or 12 grams added to 8800, it comes out to . 0013 of the total engine balance . Since a lot of the total engine balance weight is on the ends of the crank on a crank with no center counter weights, that miniscual one eighth of one percent becomes very insignificant in my mind. I'd run it without adding washers.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: rod weights
[Re: 440Jim]
#3038433
04/30/22 10:06 AM
04/30/22 10:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,490 Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
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master
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Minnesota
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Can you grind the weight off of the heavy rods?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: rod weights
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3038597
04/30/22 08:35 PM
04/30/22 08:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,111 Byron, NY
W.I.N. Racing
top fuel
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top fuel
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Posts: 2,111
Byron, NY
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I wouldn't worry until about 12g
'01 P1500, Blown/Inj BAE,/Veney ,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60 '01 Dodge 3500 S Cummins Auto, Fresh air kit, 4" Exhaust, '05 Dodge Magnum R/T - Too Much to list '60 Willys CJ5 '01 International LPX - Project,DT466, Allison '64 Plymouth Valiant, Inj 528 Hemi, 2spd
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Re: rod weights
[Re: W.I.N. Racing]
#3038607
04/30/22 09:07 PM
04/30/22 09:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,925 NC
440Jim
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I Live Here
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NC
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rebel, Looking at some of your posts this year, do you have steel Molnar rods? If so, call Molnar and ask if there is an area on the big end of their rods that your machine shop (balance) can grind off 6 grams. EDIT: do not let anyone grind on the ribs on the rod cap
Last edited by 440Jim; 05/06/22 09:50 AM.
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Re: rod weights
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3038756
05/01/22 12:18 PM
05/01/22 12:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,925 NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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When I grind h-beams (belt sand) I always do it with the rib not across it. Unless your really particular, not worth it. 6 g's will be a pretty good carve out. Yes, 6 grams difference on the big end does sound like a lot. Last year I looked at 4 boxes of Molnar 7.100" rods and these are the weights listed on the box matched sets: Total _ BE wt _ PE wt 827.30 565.60 261.70 827.00 565.70 261.30 825.80 564.00 261.80 822.90 563.70 259.20
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Re: rod weights
[Re: 440Jim]
#3039246
05/03/22 04:22 AM
05/03/22 04:22 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647 aotearoa
rebel
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ok, my rods are steel H beam Molnars, I did look at changing the rod bolts & getting them cut down to match, but molnar rod bolts are rather small physically compared to Eagle, Scat, etc...The heads are smaller, the waisted shank is smaller, Molnar seem to use a very special bolt on their rods. To cut down a set of std ARP bolts to match will have them shorter than the bolts I'm already using. I sent Tom @ Molnar an e-mail last week, but as yet, I have had no reply. I did run the idea of swapping the rods around so the heavier ones were #1 & 8, but my machinist wasn't keen on that idea as I pull 8k between gears, & told me his balance job is why my engines last with minimal wear. He also wasn't going to grind the caps as he felt 6 grams was a lot to grind off these caps, maybe if they were Eagles which are physically chunkier, but not Molnars. When I first got my rods from Molnar, every single rod was identical, big & small ends weighed the same for the complete set of 8, which was impressive compared to the Eagles & Manleys on my other motors. I guess I'll just have to wait til Tom replies & get his impression of my predicament. I did send him the weights of my current rods so he could match them, maybe this was as close as he could get?
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Re: rod weights
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3039266
05/03/22 08:35 AM
05/03/22 08:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,999 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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At 7.8 grams of steel per cubic centemeter, the 6 grams would represent a chunk of metal roughly . 4 by . 4 by . 3 devide that by two and that tells me there won't be much left of the bolt head for a socket to grip. The machinist that is so worried about 6 grams extra out on the ends of the crank, i have to ask how he rationalizes using standard, non center weighted cranks? Or worse yet, running converters, flywheels and dampers that act as counter balancing?
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: rod weights
[Re: merpar]
#3039679
05/04/22 01:18 PM
05/04/22 01:18 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,180 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,180
Bend,OR USA
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Never do anything that will give you less thread engagement. I would just bite the bullet and buy some new rods. Scat makes some really nice I beam rods or go with BM aluminum rods. Just don't do anything to sacrifice the strength of the rod or the bolt. Just kidding about the BM rods But if you could afford them, best on the market. When you say BM do you mean Bill Mitchell Engineering in Carson, NV ?
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: rod weights
[Re: Moparteacher]
#3039862
05/05/22 02:13 AM
05/05/22 02:13 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647 aotearoa
rebel
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aotearoa
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Finally got a reply from Tom. I was asking his impressions of adding washers, but it looks like thats not the go.... here's his reply [bRight now with the shortage of parts everyone is seeing, these were the closed weights that we had. You are correct, putting washers on the bolts will reduce the thread engagement. By my calculations, you would need washers with the equivalent thickness of about .130". This will reduce the thread engagement by over 2.5 threads. To prevent threads from pulling off from bolts that are into steel, you need one times diameter of engagement which means you should have 7/16" of threads engaged. Our bolts have 1/2" of thread on them so shortening them by .130" will give you just about 3/8" of engagement. This is not enough engagement to prevent a problem. Even if you add weight to the other 6 rods, the crank should be balanced. It would be better to use the rods as they are and put them both on the same rod journal and spin the crank on the balance machine. In the worst case, would require a tiny amount of heavy metal added to one counterweight. Another option is to put the new rods on the #2 and #3 rod pins and just run it. Putting them on these two rod pins will counteract each other. A couple of things I have to caution you about. First off, the bolts in our rods are not an off the shelf ARP bolt and actually have several features that make them an upgrade over what the others sell as an upgrade. Second, do not let anyone grind on the ribs on the rod caps. Doing this will knock the big ends out of round and cause potential bearing spinning or even rod failure. ][/b]
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