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HVAC Start/Run Capacitor *Update* #3033937
04/15/22 08:30 PM
04/15/22 08:30 PM
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IMGTX Offline OP
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My house AC won't work.
Split unit with evap inside and condenser outside.
Compressor sounds like it is struggling and the condenser fan won't spin up.

Went to get a new Start/Run Capacitor but the old one had no legible numbers on it. Guys at the HVAC place and I worked as best as we could and found what we thought was the one.

Compressor still struggles and the condenser fan slowly starts up runs a little but shuts off again.

I know it is time for a new unit but would like to get another few weeks out of it while I shop around for the new one.

The side panel has a log that says Miller and the UL/Info tag says Nordyne at the bottom with the model Number ACZD-024BA-1 at the top.

I can not find anything about the correct Capacitor. Is there a way to size the capacitor or know of a supplier with ooooold books?

Ideas?

Thanks


Re: HVAC Start/Run Capacitor question. [Re: IMGTX] #3033966
04/15/22 10:03 PM
04/15/22 10:03 PM
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stumpy Offline
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I don't know if this will help or not. https://www.building-center.org/nordyne-hvac-age/

Re: HVAC Start/Run Capacitor question. [Re: IMGTX] #3034030
04/16/22 07:56 AM
04/16/22 07:56 AM
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I would check the voltages at both fan motor and compressor,
before start,
during start up
and when motors seem near run speed rpm.

Since you have two separate motors it is a clue that BOTH show a slow start up that is a sign of low voltage at high amp start load.

Look for high resistance connections with “green death crud” and check fuses.

The Chinese made start capacitors do fail very frequently with short lives.
The “two capacitors in one case” seem to fail even more frequently.

The factory original USA made, with the now illegal PCB oil filled capacitor, on my Amana AC unit lasted from 1983 to 2011
but the Chinese capacitors seem to last 2-4 years, and the parts store clerks confirm this.
The made in Mexico capacitor now has lasted 5 years.

Definitely search on line for a copy of the manual for your unit with a wiring diagram, amp draws, freon pressures, etc.

There are a lot of scam manual sites online now, so use caution.

I found my Amana manual online at

https://www.manualslib.com


Re: HVAC Start/Run Capacitor question. [Re: 360view] #3034039
04/16/22 08:19 AM
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Re: HVAC Start/Run Capacitor question. [Re: 360view] #3034045
04/16/22 08:42 AM
04/16/22 08:42 AM
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boston mass-moving to long isl...
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i was told if they look 'bloated' , they should be replaced

i have '4' outside units (3x4t and 1x 2.5t) and last year the a/c co. i use said '3' should be replaced at..... 625bucks.... since the cap's cost around 25bucks, thats highway robbery- i checked em all , and they look ok... not bloated... i mite change em this year.... myself... as its a pretty easy swap...

Re: HVAC Start/Run Capacitor question. [Re: massdaytona] #3034050
04/16/22 09:03 AM
04/16/22 09:03 AM
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Sure seem to be having a rash of problems with single phase capacitor start/capacitor run motors lately. Ok, first thing, is the compressor motor a separate motor or is the compressor one of the sealed can varieties? What is the nameplate information on the compressor/compressor motor itself? Condenser fan, what is the nameplate information on it? Sometimes there is a wiring diagram on the inside of one of the covers, is there one?

Without some info, all I can give you is guesses.


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Re: HVAC Start/Run Capacitor question. [Re: 6PakBee] #3034122
04/16/22 01:30 PM
04/16/22 01:30 PM
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Youd think there should be a table or formula to figure it out if you know the amps of the fan motor and compressor.
I had to replace the capacitor in one of ours last year and the biggest problem was trying to find one locally. Either no one had them or they only wanted to deal with a company not an individual and the only place I could find was across town and wanted several times what they are worth. Ended up buying it online.

Re: HVAC Start/Run Capacitor question. [Re: 5thAve] #3034135
04/16/22 02:52 PM
04/16/22 02:52 PM
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I can guaranty if it’s good, touch the connectors it’ll knock the heck out of you, ask me how I know. Ground them first, a ohm tester will show if it’s good,

Re: HVAC Start/Run Capacitor question. [Re: cudaman1969] #3034159
04/16/22 04:41 PM
04/16/22 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by cudaman1969
I can guaranty if it’s good, touch the connectors it’ll knock the heck out of you, ask me how I know. Ground them first, a ohm tester will show if it’s good,


A ohm test won't tell you it's good. Only that it is completely bad.

Capacitors need to be read by a capacitor tester to see if they are good. Their values can change rendering it useless for the application, but it will still "pass" an ohms test and still zap you.

Re: HVAC Start/Run Capacitor question. [Re: Sniper] #3034170
04/16/22 05:19 PM
04/16/22 05:19 PM
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Like any job, you need the right tools. First, search online using the model number of your unit for the specifications of the capacitor. You may be able to locate a schematic of the unit online that will give you the specification of the capacitor. Next, see if the capacitor is out of specification. You may need to buy a Fluke 101 or similar meter if you don't have one so you can read the capacitance. The units will be microfarads. Replace if out of specification. Go where the Pros go to buy it so you don't get hosed.

Re: HVAC Start/Run Capacitor question. [Re: 6PakBee] #3034171
04/16/22 05:19 PM
04/16/22 05:19 PM
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IMGTX Offline OP
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Thanks to everyone who has replied.

Here is the wiring diagram inside the cover, the compressor labels, the Capacitor I just installed (the original one was unreadable), the fan motor label (Fan spins fine and was replaced a few years ago).

I tested both fuses to it and they had continuity.

Compressor Labels.jpgFan Motor.jpgWiring Diagram.jpgNew Capacitor.jpg
Re: HVAC Start/Run Capacitor question. [Re: IMGTX] #3034173
04/16/22 05:22 PM
04/16/22 05:22 PM
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Unit Label

I know it is oooold but I just want a few weeks to pick out a new system I want not it was the only one I could find right away.

Thanks

Model Number.jpgOld Capacitor.jpg
Re: HVAC Start/Run Capacitor question. [Re: IMGTX] #3034180
04/16/22 05:45 PM
04/16/22 05:45 PM
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The condenser motor wiring diagram calls for 5MFD @ 370v. That cap you have is a 5MFD @ 440v piece. I've seen caps that are compatible with both voltages, but they're usually labeled as such.


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Re: HVAC Start/Run Capacitor question. [Re: IMGTX] #3034201
04/16/22 06:31 PM
04/16/22 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by IMGTX
Unit Label

I know it is oooold but I just want a few weeks to pick out a new system I want not it was the only one I could find right away.

Thanks



Never seen a bad capacitor make a fan not spin.
Compressor won't even try and start if the capacitor is bad.

Re: HVAC Start/Run Capacitor question. [Re: MarkZ] #3034218
04/16/22 07:20 PM
04/16/22 07:20 PM
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IMGTX Offline OP
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Cool. I didn't see that.

Any idea if the 35 is correct for the other side of the capacitor?

We were able to make out something +5 370v on the old capacitor but the "something" is the part i can't figure out.

old Cap.jpg
Re: HVAC Start/Run Capacitor question. [Re: Sammy] #3034223
04/16/22 07:48 PM
04/16/22 07:48 PM
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I could NOT find [censored] based on the model number of AC unit itself. That thing flat out doesn't exist as far as Google is concerned. If I'm reading the serial correct though, it was made in 1989 by Nordyne, now known as Nortek.

Instead, I cross referenced the model numbers of the compressor and fan motors to find the required capacitor ratings.


For the compressor: https://www.dcne.com/UserFiles/Reso...nElectric-Copeland_00324_2_9_38_BROC.pdf

New replacement model for the CRD4-0200-PFV is a CR24K6-PFV. It says 35MFD at 370v.

For the fan motor I used the wiring diagram you posted and a couple other sources online to verify.

So a 35+5MFD 370vAC is what you need.

I misspoke in my last reply. You can use a higher rated voltage cap. What you have now has the correct capacitance ratings for both motors, so it should work. Maybe it's bad out of the box.


1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
Re: HVAC Start/Run Capacitor question. [Re: MarkZ] #3034236
04/16/22 08:25 PM
04/16/22 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkZ
I could NOT find [censored] based on the model number of AC unit itself. That thing flat out doesn't exist as far as Google is concerned. If I'm reading the serial correct though, it was made in 1989 by Nordyne, now known as Nortek.

Instead, I cross referenced the model numbers of the compressor and fan motors to find the required capacitor ratings.


For the compressor: https://www.dcne.com/UserFiles/Reso...nElectric-Copeland_00324_2_9_38_BROC.pdf

New replacement model for the CRD4-0200-PFV is a CR24K6-PFV. It says 35MFD at 370v.

For the fan motor I used the wiring diagram you posted and a couple other sources online to verify.

So a 35+5MFD 370vAC is what you need.

I misspoke in my last reply. You can use a higher rated voltage cap. What you have now has the correct capacitance ratings for both motors, so it should work. Maybe it's bad out of the box.


Good sleuthing. up I followed the same path and came up with the same conclusion. The fact that the fan works but the compressor doesn't seems to bear out MarkZ's comment that your new capacitor may be defective.


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Re: HVAC Start/Run Capacitor question. [Re: 6PakBee] #3034331
04/17/22 10:05 AM
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Thank you all for the help.

I am beginning to wonder if the problem is something else because the fan turns, but starts slow. It never seems to reach full speed then after a while stops. After a little while starts the cycle again. The compressor just makes a constant struggling sound like it's working but not as correctly. I assumed since they are both on the same Capacitor it was the Capacitor. Now I wonder if they are suffering from low current/voltage or the compressor is failing and drawing so much current the fan is starved for power.

I'm going to check the voltage at points through the circuits, replace the fuses (just in case, even thought thy have continuity) and bypass the relay that turns the system on. Any other ideas? I do not have an A/C Ammeter but I will buy one if I need to.

Thanks again.

Re: HVAC Start/Run Capacitor question. [Re: IMGTX] #3034336
04/17/22 10:21 AM
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The compressor could be mechanically dragging, quite common on older hermetic compressors. I would put a hard start capacitor on the compressor, and use the 5 UF 370v side of the capacitor you have for the condenser fan motor. Check all of your electrical connections for loose and or corroded terminals.

Last edited by Droop69; 04/17/22 10:28 AM.
Re: HVAC Start/Run Capacitor question. [Re: IMGTX] #3034348
04/17/22 10:50 AM
04/17/22 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by IMGTX
Thank you all for the help.

I am beginning to wonder if the problem is something else because the fan turns, but starts slow. It never seems to reach full speed then after a while stops. After a little while starts the cycle again. The compressor just makes a constant struggling sound like it's working but not as correctly.


MarkZ (or anyone else with A/C knowledge), could a plugged up condensation line make it act like that?

I had to clean mine yesterday.

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