Machine shop scaling back; sign of the times
#3033465
04/14/22 10:20 AM
04/14/22 10:20 AM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,127 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,127
Loudoun County, VA
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Yesterday I dropped by the local machine shop who's been doing my bottom end work over the years, while PRH has been handling my cylinder heads.
It's down to just the owner now and all he's doing is basic block and head machine work: - he doesn't do assembly any longer - his balancing work was done by an older guy who has stopped working due to health issues - and the local crank specialist to whom he'd farm out his crank grinding has also retired
My purpose for stopping by was to introduce him to a long-time friend about an hour west of me who was looking for someone to do some basic block & head machine work, so he's still good to cover that. I'd also wanted to check with him about balancing my backup engine's rotating assembly, only to find out I'll need to find someone else.
These guys are the last of a dying breed and replacing them is gonna be tough.
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: Machine shop scaling back; sign of the times
[Re: Dragula]
#3033499
04/14/22 12:05 PM
04/14/22 12:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,980 new jersey usa
11secdart
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,980
new jersey usa
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Yes it is a sign if the times these guys are getting older . Both of the machine shops I have used recently have stated they are going to be scaling back and not taking in any new work except special circumstances or work for really good past customers .
Last edited by 11secdart; 04/14/22 12:31 PM.
68 Dart 410 / 904 92 D150 original owner 21 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, Big Horn , Hemi ,4x4 23 Audi Q5 16 Honda HRV
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Re: Machine shop scaling back; sign of the times
[Re: Neil]
#3033541
04/14/22 02:13 PM
04/14/22 02:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,022 MN
JERICOGTX
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,022
MN
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My machinist is "retired". His shop is so full he is no longer taking in new customers. He asked if I will be assembling my own engine, as he doesn't really have time. No big deal to me, as I like doing that part. He will also tell current customers that if you bring him something now, it will be at least a year and a half. He turns down work daily. I have no clue where I'll go, when he decides he's had enough.
Last edited by JERICOGTX; 04/14/22 02:13 PM.
69 GTX
68 Road Runner
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Re: Machine shop scaling back; sign of the times
[Re: jwb123]
#3033614
04/14/22 04:49 PM
04/14/22 04:49 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 490 IL
EchoSixMike
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 490
IL
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I'm in the process of opening a machine shop, south central Wisconsin. Trying to capture some of that knowledge before the old geezers all die off More or less directly instigated by nobody being able to grind a crank for **** unless you want to ship it to Moldex/Crankshaft Specialists/Marine crank/Winberg/etc. I'm 46 and pretty much the "young guy." Unfortunately a lot of these old shops have equipment just as used up and tired as the people operating them. It's hard to justify spending $50k+ on new machines, and especially tooling and fixturing when the break even on the investment is going to be years and years. And that was when it was available, with the Brandon/COVID shutdown of everything, everyone is monthes and years to delivery. Sunnen flat out tells you it'll be a year before you can get a honing machine from them. All this for a hobby industry. S/F....Ken M
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Re: Machine shop scaling back; sign of the times
[Re: EchoSixMike]
#3033649
04/14/22 07:39 PM
04/14/22 07:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,036 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,036
Oregon
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I'm in the process of opening a machine shop, south central Wisconsin. Trying to capture some of that knowledge before the old geezers all die off More or less directly instigated by nobody being able to grind a crank for **** unless you want to ship it to Moldex/Crankshaft Specialists/Marine crank/Winberg/etc. I'm 46 and pretty much the "young guy." Unfortunately a lot of these old shops have equipment just as used up and tired as the people operating them. It's hard to justify spending $50k+ on new machines, and especially tooling and fixturing when the break even on the investment is going to be years and years. And that was when it was available, with the Brandon/COVID shutdown of everything, everyone is monthes and years to delivery. Sunnen flat out tells you it'll be a year before you can get a honing machine from them. All this for a hobby industry. S/F....Ken M This what I see in the industry also. Most of the "old time" shops have worn out equipment. There isn't enough money in the business for shops to buy new equipment every 10 years so the equipment just wears out. The owner's plan is to retire when the equipment all wears out since he can't afford to replace it all. It would cost $1M to set up a new engine shop with all new equipment and it would take forever to pay it off. Crate motors make more sense economically since they can be produced in a factory setting with lower prices, but cheaper crate motors killed off a lot of "mom and pop" machine shops since they couldn't compete.
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Re: Machine shop scaling back; sign of the times
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3033675
04/14/22 10:12 PM
04/14/22 10:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,485 Candler,NC / Myrtle Beach, SC
JDMopar
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,485
Candler,NC / Myrtle Beach, SC
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The guy who owns the only performance-oriented machine shop near me is 79. He can out work 2 men half his age, but he's pretty much a one man show, so he is understandably a little slow on delivery. I'm pretty lucky that he and I are pretty good friends, and he will shuffle my stuff though a little quicker. I just hope I can get a 340, 273, 451, and a 400 Poncho motor thru his shop before he decides to click off the lights and go to the house.
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Re: Machine shop scaling back; sign of the times
[Re: JDMopar]
#3033706
04/15/22 02:00 AM
04/15/22 02:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,179 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,179
Park Forest, IL
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I tried a new shop last winter for getting a crank cleaned and prepped. The guy that owns the shop is 3rd generation and a racer. Hopefully he'll be around a while.
I use Keith Long for transmissions. He's the same age as me, so hopefully he lasts as long as me too.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: Machine shop scaling back; sign of the times
[Re: slantzilla]
#3033724
04/15/22 07:58 AM
04/15/22 07:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,027 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,027
Tulsa OK
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There might be more than you realize if you start asking the Locals. There is a few around here that are pretty much no sign and no advertising.
My R1 block was done by Shady Dell in 2015, the work is excellent and it sucks that place ended like it did. It was well worth the freight to send it to someone who knew small block Mopars. When that engine needs work I don't know where we will take it.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: Machine shop scaling back; sign of the times
[Re: AndyF]
#3033726
04/15/22 08:05 AM
04/15/22 08:05 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,986 Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,986
Apollo, PA.
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I'm in the process of opening a machine shop, south central Wisconsin. Trying to capture some of that knowledge before the old geezers all die off More or less directly instigated by nobody being able to grind a crank for **** unless you want to ship it to Moldex/Crankshaft Specialists/Marine crank/Winberg/etc. I'm 46 and pretty much the "young guy." Unfortunately a lot of these old shops have equipment just as used up and tired as the people operating them. It's hard to justify spending $50k+ on new machines, and especially tooling and fixturing when the break even on the investment is going to be years and years. And that was when it was available, with the Brandon/COVID shutdown of everything, everyone is monthes and years to delivery. Sunnen flat out tells you it'll be a year before you can get a honing machine from them. All this for a hobby industry. S/F....Ken M This what I see in the industry also. Most of the "old time" shops have worn out equipment. There isn't enough money in the business for shops to buy new equipment every 10 years so the equipment just wears out. The owner's plan is to retire when the equipment all wears out since he can't afford to replace it all. It would cost $1M to set up a new engine shop with all new equipment and it would take forever to pay it off. Crate motors make more sense economically since they can be produced in a factory setting with lower prices, but cheaper crate motors killed off a lot of "mom and pop" machine shops since they couldn't compete. Yeah, cause crate engines have great machining reputations. Some of the worst taper/tolerances/roundness, I've seen came from state of the art equip shops. It's not the machine it the operator 9/10. just my
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Re: Machine shop scaling back; sign of the times
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3033756
04/15/22 09:12 AM
04/15/22 09:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,925 NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,925
NC
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Yesterday I dropped by the local machine shop who's been doing my bottom end work over the years, while PRH has been handling my cylinder heads.
It's down to just the owner now and all he's doing is basic block and head machine work: - he doesn't do assembly any longer - his balancing work was done by an older guy who has stopped working due to health issues - and the local crank specialist to whom he'd farm out his crank grinding has also retired
Back in 2003, etc. when I lived in Maryland; I used this shop for crankshaft work (including my first offset grind of a factory steel crank) and I was happy. They had a few crank grinding machines, and did lots of different crankshaft work (tractors, truck diesel, race, etc.) I don't know if they are still doing crankshaft work. Martin & Otterback Shop: 301-277-4166 Upshure Ave, Bladensburg, MD Art crankshaft grinding. Rt 50, Rt 201, Kenilworth, Left on Upshure between 48th and 49th
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Re: Machine shop scaling back; sign of the times
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3033840
04/15/22 02:37 PM
04/15/22 02:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,490 Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,490
Minnesota
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I have been buying old machines for years. Ever since my go to guy started talking about closing Early 2000's. He's gone now (from business). I have some of his stuff and luckily he's just a phone call away. Once you learn the machine you can produce very nice stuff.I have an old Van norman 905, and a Peterson HC-1 with a friction feed and produce bores with .0005 or better. Check some of the high end stuff. You'll know that's pretty good. I'm doing the same thing, trying to collect all of the machinery to do it myself. Then it gets done my schedule.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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