Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
87 Plymouth Duster/Turismo engine/smog removal #3033523
04/14/22 01:34 PM
04/14/22 01:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,058
Escondido, California
JonGottaDemonDad Offline OP
super stock
JonGottaDemonDad  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,058
Escondido, California
I did an engine removal of the 2.2 to do some basic work on the engine and most importantly I had to replace the clutch but the car only has 11k miles since it was stored in a garage for the last 30+ years. I did buy a complete kit to replace the head gasket set since it has been sitting so long.

Question any smog stuff that I can safely remove from the vehicle? I see lots of smog looking stuff and would like to get rid of it if I can. I am no longer in CA with the car it is in NY.

Advice? Any other work I should do to the motor while it is out? Yes I am going to replace the timing belt as well.

Thank you!

Craig

Re: 87 Plymouth Duster/Turismo engine/smog removal [Re: JonGottaDemonDad] #3033700
04/15/22 12:28 AM
04/15/22 12:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,555
Freeport IL USA
poorboy Offline
I Live Here
poorboy  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,555
Freeport IL USA
Is it carbed, throttle body injection, or turbo with port injection? Hopefully its not carbed.

87 could have had any of the 3 inductions systems. By 87, most of the emissions were built into the systems, messing with the systems usually resulted in a very poor running car. I was a dealer tech in 86 & 87. The biggest issue we had (outside of head gasket sealing) was people that tried to remove the emissions, and the gas with higher then 10% ethanol content.

By 87, the carbs were really bad, very poor quality with lots of issues. The best upgrade was to replace everything (intake, wiring, and computer) to at least the throttle body induction system. The carbed motors originally had a mechanical fuel pump, if it still has one of those, you really need to step up to the in tank electric pump. Back in the day, there was a drivability kit to make that changeover, but I suspect that is no longer around. If there is a carb, you have to absolutely make sure the gas you buy is no more the 10% ethanol, or the carbs won't work worth a crap. There was a whole host of "drivability upgrades" that came along on the carbed motors in the 86-89 era, to make them acceptable to drive correctly. If you car is carbed, I suspect some (most?) of those things you think may be "smog" stuff could well be drivability kits that have been added so the car drives OK, but I don't know how much more stuff was added for CA emissions. We re a long way from CA.

The throttle body injection added about 10 more HP to the motor, and you could feel the difference. The throttle body systems were 10x better with driving issues then the carbed versions. Removing any emissions stuff will kill the drivability, reduce the fuel economy, and kill the power levels on them. Everything was designed into the system, and it actually worked pretty well.

The turbo 2.2s were pretty much fun, but were not often ordered on the Duster/Turismo line. They were a huge upgrade from the throttle body injection Gene

Re: 87 Plymouth Duster/Turismo engine/smog removal [Re: poorboy] #3033843
04/15/22 02:50 PM
04/15/22 02:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,058
Escondido, California
JonGottaDemonDad Offline OP
super stock
JonGottaDemonDad  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,058
Escondido, California
Gene,

Yes it does have a carb it is all original at this point. Since it does not have any power to start with I will leave it all intact as it is now. It seems to run and idle well at this point so no issues with that right now.

We are hoping to do an engine swap in the future to a more modern turbo setup but going to keep it stock for now. Thanks for your expertise!!!

Craig

Re: 87 Plymouth Duster/Turismo engine/smog removal [Re: JonGottaDemonDad] #3034263
04/16/22 10:22 PM
04/16/22 10:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,555
Freeport IL USA
poorboy Offline
I Live Here
poorboy  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,555
Freeport IL USA
Originally Posted by JonGottaDemonDad
Gene,

Yes it does have a carb it is all original at this point. Since it does not have any power to start with I will leave it all intact as it is now. It seems to run and idle well at this point so no issues with that right now.

We are hoping to do an engine swap in the future to a more modern turbo setup but going to keep it stock for now. Thanks for your expertise!!!

Craig


My wife thought she needed a minivan when they 1st came out. The motor choices were the carbed [censored] 2.6, or the carbed 2.2. The 2.6 had a lot more power then the 2.2, but the 2.6 carbs were 10x worse then the 2.2 carbs. As a dealer tech, we had to go the classes at the regional Chrysler training center to "catch up" with the latest info. One of the guys in one of our classes was asking about the carbs on the 2.6, and the instructor stated that there was no rebuild, you had to replace them, but the replacement carbs was hard to find back then already. I picked up a used 2.2 minivan cheap. If you think your 87 Duster is powerless, you should experience that motor in a minivan! LOL!
During that time frame, you could buy a Direct Connection Performance cam for a 2.2 for less then $100 that didn't require any other engine modifications (part # P4120845, 252-252-36 with .430 lift. Says "good power", probably no longer available) I put one in the minivan, that at least made it acceptable to drive. Picking my brain on the subject, I think I remember that the turbo cam was better then the carbed motor cam and could be a big improvement. Take that as you want, the old brain doesn't work as well as it used to. Gene

Re: 87 Plymouth Duster/Turismo engine/smog removal [Re: poorboy] #3034525
04/17/22 09:10 PM
04/17/22 09:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,704
MICHIGAN
DynoDave Offline
master
DynoDave  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,704
MICHIGAN
My 2 cents: With the potential for creating other issues, and so little to be gained, I'd leave everything intact if it's working.

The biggest issues I had with the carb were a rough transition after start, "dieseling" or run-on after key off, and a light misfire at idle when warm (rich open loop at idle).

A careful (but easy to do) choke pull-off adjustment took care of the cold start transition.

My fix for the idle (this is idling, warm, in gear [automatic], and it would just drop a cylinder [1 missed firing on one cylinder] ever 10 seconds or so, to give you an idea of the frequency). Not a real "problem", but it annoyed me. And while I'm a big proponent of Champion plugs for MOPARs, I had excellent luck cleaning up this issue with Bosch single platinum plugs. Fresh Champs did nothing for it. With the switch to Bosch, the open loop idle misfire flat out disappeared.

The dieseling or run-on was something that could be typical of any car in the era. Spark knock...no one wants to spend the money for premium, so they (owner or mechanic who doesn't know what's going on) drop the timing. With that, the idle speed drops, so they crank the idle speed screw in, opening the throttle more, and leading to run-on. Yes, you could leave it like this and shut it off in gear. But again, I found that intolerable. So I actually advanced the timing several degree beyond spec (ran a little better / perkier to boot), ran premium, and closed that throttle by backing off the idle speed screw. The little engine was a lot happier this way. I will note, this is in college (late '80s), and at that time gas is $1.50 a gallon, mid-grade $1.60, and premium $1.70, more or less. With a mere 20 cents a gallon cost for premium over regular, I was happy to pay it for the improved performance and behavior. And I'd probably still do it today. But it would be more painful.


DynoDave
Walter P. Chrysler Club - Great Lakes Region
Member # 12304
1970 Plymouth Duster
1972 Dodge Charger Rallye
https://wichargerguy.proboards.com/
1977 Chrysler Cordoba






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1