Re: Predator builds
[Re: n20mstr]
#3018460
02/24/22 12:02 PM
02/24/22 12:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,276 Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,276
Shelby Twp. Mi
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Predators were considered for my new build, however they are not legal for Ultra Street. Along with everything you have done to get some help with the rules, don't forget to SANDBAG. And if all that fails, it seems like some have had good luck using adolescent behavior to get what they want. In NMCA NA the sr20 is legal and is used and one is near the front of the pack.
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Re: Predator builds
[Re: HardcoreB]
#3018465
02/24/22 12:30 PM
02/24/22 12:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,376 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,376
Loudoun County, VA
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When I saw the pic of the Indy vs Predator heads side by side, the first thought that came to mind was: That's a good comparison between 1980 and 2000 cylinder head technology. Then I remembered this is a Mopar site and had to correct my thought: That's a good comparison between 1990 and 2010 cylinder head technology.
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: Predator builds
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3018473
02/24/22 01:00 PM
02/24/22 01:00 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,038 MI, usa
dvw
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,038
MI, usa
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Trying to discuss rules with NMCA is an exercise in futility. Tell me again why a 4150 billet carb body of correct dimension isn't legal in an Index class? According to them "it has a distinct advantage over a casting" In fact its the ONLY part made from billet that is illegal in the class. However Methanol is legal. I shake my head. Doug
Last edited by dvw; 02/24/22 01:01 PM.
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Re: Predator builds
[Re: dvw]
#3018531
02/24/22 02:51 PM
02/24/22 02:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,276 Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,276
Shelby Twp. Mi
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Trying to discuss rules with NMCA is an exercise in futility. Tell me again why a 4150 billet carb body of correct dimension isn't legal in an Index class? According to them "it has a distinct advantage over a casting" In fact its the ONLY part made from billet that is illegal in the class. However Methanol is legal. I shake my head. Doug Yeah some of us rallied for you. It is disappointing and I've aired my reasoning, mainly being every part of your car LOOKS more era correct than about 90% of what's in your class.
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Re: Predator builds
[Re: HardcoreB]
#3018552
02/24/22 03:34 PM
02/24/22 03:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,376 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,376
Loudoun County, VA
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Kidding around about "old tech" simply because that's what ya' hear about the Mopar world anyway. He11, I've built my last two combinations using two out of three of what seem to be the most hated BBM heads around, MP Stage VIs and Edelbrock Victors. If I ever try a set of Bulldogs, I could probably claim the trifecta. (Hot chocolate, actually, cuz it's cold outside)
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: Predator builds
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3018556
02/24/22 03:43 PM
02/24/22 03:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,276 Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,276
Shelby Twp. Mi
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Kidding around about "old tech" simply because that's what ya' hear about the Mopar world anyway. He11, I've built my last two combinations using two out of three of what seem to be the most hated BBM heads around, MP Stage VIs and Edelbrock Victors. If I ever try a set of Bulldogs, I could probably claim the trifecta. (Hot chocolate, actually, cuz it's cold outside) No offense, i know what you meant and the way I think, performance is relative to the parts used and I respect/appreciate peoples refinements and their abilities to get above average results.
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Re: Predator builds
[Re: HardcoreB]
#3018620
02/24/22 06:59 PM
02/24/22 06:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,487 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,487
Kalispell Mt.
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I don't think they would nessacarily run bad on a smaller engine than 600CID... it just might not run to it's max potential. Sort of like how I have heads that flow 340 CFM on a 410 horse 392, yes I could easily bump it up to 440 CID a couple more points of compression a huge cam and make 700 HP but it runs just fine on a lesser engine. I really don't think my engine will run any better with a 200 CFM head even though that's all you need to make 410HP.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Predator builds
[Re: birdtracker]
#3018734
02/25/22 08:35 AM
02/25/22 08:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,276 Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,276
Shelby Twp. Mi
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Al Aquire had a very good running 605 that I got to run 4.65 after 2 passes and a high dollar lifter decided it didn't want to play anymore. Hardcore B you should ask him if he has that camshaft. It is a known good combo. Thats me being the crew [censored]. I honestly think it would of went a .60 or even in the .50's after a couple more passes. We were definetly going the right direction Birdtracker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMfMNxHvDp0 Hey Bird! That's neat you got to help Al! I think he said Muncie was one of his favorite tracks? Thanks for the video link too, I opened it and saw there were quite a few more racing videos and before you know it, I had forgotten why I was there. lol If my stuff runs good it is not because it's just me, I recognize it is an accumulation of inputs from so many people in this community. Al has been right there helping steer me.
Last edited by HardcoreB; 02/25/22 08:50 AM.
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Re: Predator builds
[Re: HardcoreB]
#3018739
02/25/22 08:44 AM
02/25/22 08:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,276 Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,276
Shelby Twp. Mi
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While I had them out I did a quick gage of the L W and radius of each at the port opening so I could calculate the cross-section. This is a 460 Predator beside a 440-1 Indy cnc'd by Modern. At the opening the MW has a larger area! 3.36" versus 3.16" Obviously it doesn't tell the whole story. Can you share the quick dimensions? I had a pair of Indy 440-1 CNC 345 (Indy's CNC porting), and for comparison they were: Intake_ Width Height Area Opening 1.375 2.650 3.644 The area calcs don't account for the corner radius, just LxW MW 2.68x1.38 R .625" Pred 2.46x1.95 R 1.38" So, this morning I thought the cross-section calc's were off and I'm redoing those and about to log-in so i can enter my error and I see 440Jim sent me a pm telling me the calc's are off. Honestly what a gentleman, I appreciate that you didn't point out my error publicly lol. But, I really don't mind if anyone points out a mistake constructively. With that said the Pred IS BIGGER than the MW 440-1 duh. I'll post better numbers when i have more confidence in my area chart inputs. Anyone that gets the chance, launch that link video Birdtracker posted for Alguires Predator Avenger. Car run goo
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Re: Predator builds
[Re: Dartin]
#3018983
02/25/22 11:07 PM
02/25/22 11:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,941 NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 16,941
NC
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I made some simplifications/assumptions, but this is my approximation of the Predator intake opening cross-section. I could be wrong.... But if somebody else calculates something close, I will go with it. For comparison, my B1 original heads were ported by somebody to 2.74 x 1.755 with maybe 0.50 radius corners. And I came up with 4.59 sqin. A standard Koffel's gasket is 2.66 x 1.60 or about 4.04 sqin accounting for corners.
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