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Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: fast68plymouth] #2963322
09/12/21 06:03 PM
09/12/21 06:03 PM
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Wirenut Offline OP
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Originally Posted by Wirenut
So when I had the gear out today I put some ot the debris chips next to it and they don’t look to be the same color . The debris looks copper to me


I think you know what that means.

Although, the bushing is usually more copper colored than the gear.

See if you can get a measurement of how thick the flange on the bushing is, and compare to a new one to get an idea of how much is worn off it.


Like measure the oil slot or remove the bushing?


Last edited by Wirenut; 09/12/21 09:05 PM.
Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Wirenut] #2963325
09/12/21 06:04 PM
09/12/21 06:04 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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Quote
Is there or should there normally be a steel washer under the gear? Could I have missed it in the rebuild? And if I did would it take this long to show itself?


There was never a washer or shim supplied or suggested. HOWEVER, back in the day roller cams were seldom used in anything but a race motor that saw regular teardowns or maintenance. Subsequently wear was likely caught in the early stages and the gears swapped out before any significant damage occurred. However, once rollers started seeing more street use and probably less maintenance, its become an issue. But one that's easily solved or avoided. Either with a steel shim or a treated steel gear.

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Stanton] #2963379
09/12/21 08:02 PM
09/12/21 08:02 PM
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dvw Offline
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In my experience the washer works. Zero wear after installing a washer. Same gear at 750 passes.
Doug

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: dvw] #2963411
09/12/21 09:03 PM
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Wirenut Offline OP
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Thanks guys.
Pretty sure that what’s in the filter is copper . Doesn’t seem the large amount of debris equals the wear on the gear or bushing.

It’s going to have to wait until winter . I have a lot on my plate right now.

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Wirenut] #2963438
09/12/21 10:26 PM
09/12/21 10:26 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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Bearing. Got through the bearing surface and into the copper intermediate layer.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Wirenut] #2963479
09/13/21 01:30 AM
09/13/21 01:30 AM
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Larry Shepard (formally Hemis Only) offers the modified intermediate gear with the torrington installed. 330-644-2000.
http://hemisonly.com/index.html

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Moparteacher] #2963497
09/13/21 07:55 AM
09/13/21 07:55 AM
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On the parachute mount
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n20mstr Offline
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On the parachute mount
Sorry to say but most likely, thats bearing material.
IF the oil pressure is good and really hasnt changed, check the endplay on the crank. Might be knocking the thrust bearing out.


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: n20mstr] #2963521
09/13/21 09:39 AM
09/13/21 09:39 AM
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North Carolina
sasquatch Offline
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Check the trust on the crank shaft. Todd

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: n20mstr] #2963567
09/13/21 11:47 AM
09/13/21 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by n20mstr
Sorry to say but most likely, thats bearing material.
IF the oil pressure is good and really hasnt changed, check the endplay on the crank. Might be knocking the thrust bearing out.


Only other thing in the engine that color.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: sasquatch] #2963578
09/13/21 12:14 PM
09/13/21 12:14 PM
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Massillon, Ohio
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Originally Posted by sasquatch
Check the trust on the crank shaft. Todd


This would be my bet as well. A friend just experienced the same problem.


Ok
Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: sasquatch] #2963581
09/13/21 12:19 PM
09/13/21 12:19 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Originally Posted by sasquatch
Check the trust on the crank shaft. Todd
iagree scope up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Cab_Burge] #2963771
09/13/21 07:27 PM
09/13/21 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by sasquatch
Check the trust on the crank shaft. Todd
iagree scope up


My thought as well. Ran the daylights out of it the week before and op was good , so keeping my fingers crossed .
Like I said I have a heavy life load right now so hoping to get it in the garage end of October. I’ll be updating then .

Thanks for the interest. Stay tuned

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Wirenut] #3006934
01/19/22 07:56 PM
01/19/22 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Wirenut
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by sasquatch
Check the trust on the crank shaft. Todd
iagree scope up


My thought as well. Ran the daylights out of it the week before and op was good , so keeping my fingers crossed .
Like I said I have a heavy life load right now so hoping to get it in the garage end of October. I’ll be updating then .

Thanks for the interest. Stay tuned


So finally got the engine out and yes it is the thrust bearing . Unfortunately it damaged the rear (front facing) thrust surface on the crank . Fortunately everything else looked very good. I dropped the crank at the machine shop today that is helping out with things and he informed me that part of repairing the thrust surface will be having to cut the mains down . Not happy about it but so far folks are telling me its not a big deal and wont really effect anything . The crank will be magnafluxed , the rod journals will be checked and checked for straightness.

I have searched threads here to shine light on what happened and most threads indicate trans / converter / trans pressure issues . The trans will go out next and cooler and lines will be checked.

Is there any way looking at a converter to tell if it has ballooned?

Am I missing anything?

FYI
This happened after about 80 passes . Previous rebuild was at 125 passes and all bearings including thrust surfaces looked great . The 125 passes were with King HP bearings at .003 . The 80 passes were with King XP also at .003 clearance .

Thanks Moparts

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Wirenut] #3006940
01/19/22 08:00 PM
01/19/22 08:00 PM
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Definitely have the converter looked at for ballooning by really good converter company up, that is the only thing I can think of that would cause the thrust getting eaten up while running scope
What brand and size converter?
On the crank thrust I have had to have them welded up and reground to get the clearance correct and grind the mains down to the next under size to get the crank straight. :weldwrench

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 01/19/22 08:04 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Cab_Burge] #3006970
01/19/22 09:09 PM
01/19/22 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Definitely have the converter looked at for ballooning by really good converter company up, that is the only thing I can think of that would cause the thrust getting eaten up while running scope
What brand and size converter?
On the crank thrust I have had to have them welded up and reground to get the clearance correct and grind the mains down to the next under size to get the crank straight. :weldwrench


Thanks Cab
Converter is very old . Not sure of manufacture. I would have to look back at some records from the previous owner . Memory is tci 5400 stall . I’m thinking time for a new converter
Gary

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Wirenut] #3006999
01/19/22 09:57 PM
01/19/22 09:57 PM
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Check the thrust surface, it should be free of any scratches. Put a tee fitting in the to cooler line and see what the pressure is. 30# comes to mind. I’d flush your cooler too. What size cooler lines are you using.

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: rickraw] #3007181
01/20/22 01:38 PM
01/20/22 01:38 PM
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north of coder
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if the crank needs welded up, maybe time for a stroker kit ? shruggy
beer

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: moparx] #3007203
01/20/22 02:07 PM
01/20/22 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by moparx
if the crank needs welded up, maybe time for a stroker kit ? shruggy
beer
devil up scope


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Cab_Burge] #3007228
01/20/22 02:59 PM
01/20/22 02:59 PM
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Salt Lake City
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Is the gold dust magnetic? That will tell you if it's engine bearing material.

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Cab_Burge] #3007375
01/20/22 08:56 PM
01/20/22 08:56 PM
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Wirenut Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by moparx
if the crank needs welded up, maybe time for a stroker kit ? shruggy
beer
devil up scope


It is a eagle stroker. The repair is $300.00 .

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