Re: Does a girdle in a BB Mopar help?
[Re: VernMotor]
#2997531
12/22/21 10:35 AM
12/22/21 10:35 AM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,126 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,126
Loudoun County, VA
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Mine did not Rod cut right though that girdle
So... what brand & type of rod managed to blow a hole through your block?
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: Does a girdle in a BB Mopar help?
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#2997534
12/22/21 10:44 AM
12/22/21 10:44 AM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,126 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2021
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Loudoun County, VA
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I can't recall who posted this pic previously (ccdave?), but this is the same basic setup my next block has to work with: standard aluminum main caps + "budget" girdle
I think everyone agrees all of these approaches are simply Band-Aids with various degrees of benefit on an OEM block. I'd LOVE a BMP aluminum block, but that's not even on my radar.
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: Does a girdle in a BB Mopar help?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2997558
12/22/21 12:10 PM
12/22/21 12:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Cross bolting the mains does basically NOTHING for cap walk. Been there seen that many times. Yet many believe it is the be all end all. There are other remedies for this and IMO a center counter weighted crank is your friend. As far as girdles go what can it hurt, especially combined with aluminum caps, lite bobweight and conservative on the timing. Do all that and I believe a stock block, provided the cylinder walls are good can last a good long happy life. I agree, and I pasted my answer for n another thread Weighing in on the girdle thing with my experience. In 2003 I dynoed a megablock 4.15 stroke 4.50 bore 528 cube motor. Made 847 hp injected on methanol . I noticed cap walk on a crossbolted megablock, Max rpm was 7400. Bob weight 2432. I put a girdle on it. Didn't take away the cap walk issue. During this time we found a minor cracking the crank by #6. I bought a rather expensive center weighted crank from Crower and took the girdle off. The C. W. Crank eliminated about 90 percent of the cap walk. I finally needed a little cleanup and align hone in 2019. So IMHO the girdle basically can force a large portion of any movement into a vertical motion, which may help a little. BUT THERE IS NO TRIANGULATION to stop that vertical stress completely. So end result? IMHO they may be of some benefit, but not enough for a lot of stressfully builds. Properly done, an add on girdle would be 3 inch or more tall, or thick, if that is how you would view it. That would require a rather short oil pan, like a dragster 10 qt . The big deal about it being so tall is it would now be so rigid it could transfer stress to the pan rails in all directions, not just lateral.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Does a girdle in a BB Mopar help?
[Re: gregsdart]
#2997594
12/22/21 01:50 PM
12/22/21 01:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,165 Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl
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Plymouth, MI
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Years ago I remember TRENDZ posting a picture of the modifications he did to a stock block. If I remember right he machined the tops of stock caps flat and then made tool steel straps that went over the top of the stock main caps. It looked super slick and if I remember right he was well over 1000 hp with a stock block.
If I end up having to redo the motor in my Fury but am too broke to buy an aftermarket block, I'll probably turn it into a 512 and use aluminum caps, not bothering with the girdle.
'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
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Re: Does a girdle in a BB Mopar help?
[Re: racerx]
#2997652
12/22/21 06:26 PM
12/22/21 06:26 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,163 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,163
Bend,OR USA
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iagree up Me too on the main studs and aluminum main caps now that we can't buy the Mopar Ductile iron main caps anymore whiney
Cab.......are you saying you prefer the iron over aluminum caps if available? Yes Based on the ductile iron material expansion rate at difference operating temps being very near the block cast grey iron rate I've used both with no failures yet I'm sure my current S/P 400 block E85 bracket stroker motor will have a major failure first run next year I sincerely hope not
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Does a girdle in a BB Mopar help?
[Re: merpar]
#3002787
01/07/22 02:30 AM
01/07/22 02:30 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 417 reynoldsburg,ohio
poppaj
mopar
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mopar
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reynoldsburg,ohio
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I agree, unless you are running a class that rules say you must use a stock block why would you? If you are trying to make 800+ horses buy a good iron or alloy aftermarket block. All the stock stuff is at least 40yrs old. They are going to fail. Factory stuff was good but not for ultra high horsepower. Plus you have to hack them all up to get a decent stroker crank and aluminum rods to clear. Block is the foundation for a reliable build. Not a place to save money IMO Pops
AA/NSS 65'Coronet "Whompin Wedge" Pop & Son Performance 557" B-1 power John Holt Chassis
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Re: Does a girdle in a BB Mopar help?
[Re: poppaj]
#3002836
01/07/22 12:04 PM
01/07/22 12:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,672 Wichita
GY3
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OP
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I agree, unless you are running a class that rules say you must use a stock block why would you? If you are trying to make 800+ horses buy a good iron or alloy aftermarket block. All the stock stuff is at least 40yrs old. They are going to fail. Factory stuff was good but not for ultra high horsepower. Plus you have to hack them all up to get a decent stroker crank and aluminum rods to clear. Block is the foundation for a reliable build. Not a place to save money IMO Pops $5200 for a new block is out of a lot of people's price range. In much the same fashion people buy $250.00 LS motors, turbo them, and go get another block when that one $hits the bed, It's cheaper to gamble with a stock block.
'63 Dodge 330 11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs. 10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: Does a girdle in a BB Mopar help?
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3003281
01/08/22 09:24 PM
01/08/22 09:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
VernMotor
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Mine did not Rod cut right though that girdle
So... what brand & type of rod managed to blow a hole through your block? Eagle H beam
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Re: Does a girdle in a BB Mopar help?
[Re: MoonshineMattK]
#3003283
01/08/22 09:28 PM
01/08/22 09:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
VernMotor
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[quote=VernMotor
Mine did not Rod cut right though that girdle What did you attribute the rod failure to? [/quote] Rod did not fail until the cy-wall crack..I believe it was too thin.. did't get sonic tested .. they all do now !! And I will add that is that last Engine I ran with motor mounts.. Got a motor plate after that..
Last edited by VernMotor; 01/08/22 09:40 PM.
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Re: Does a girdle in a BB Mopar help?
[Re: Dragula]
#3003300
01/08/22 10:25 PM
01/08/22 10:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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We run a lot of them with girdles. We believe they help. I can say, I don't see how they can't hurt. Think about it, you stud the main caps and the tie them into a girdle that bolts to the oil pan rail. How can it not help? We have been running over 800hp with this setup for years. Bearings usually look really good when we do check ups. Only time they don't is usually with a repaired crank or where we have had other issues. The weakness in aftermarket girdles is lack of height. Newer motors have deep sidewalls to tie into, adding a huge amount of stability up and down.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Does a girdle in a BB Mopar help?
[Re: VernMotor]
#3003479
01/09/22 03:07 PM
01/09/22 03:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,402 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
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[quote=VernMotor
Mine did not Rod cut right though that girdle What did you attribute the rod failure to? Rod did not fail until the cy-wall crack..I believe it was too thin.. did't get sonic tested .. they all do now !! And I will add that is that last Engine I ran with motor mounts.. Got a motor plate after that.. [/quote] what kind of motor mounts ? solids ? if solids were used, do you think a rubber mount on the passenger side, or both rubber mounts used with a limiter would have prevented the block cracking ?
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Re: Does a girdle in a BB Mopar help?
[Re: gregsdart]
#3003499
01/09/22 04:39 PM
01/09/22 04:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067 Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Irving, TX
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The weakness in aftermarket girdles is lack of height. Newer motors have deep sidewalls to tie into, adding a huge amount of stability up and down.
That's why modern serious performance engines have bed plates instead of main caps. Hey, it's only money, right?
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: Does a girdle in a BB Mopar help?
[Re: moparx]
#3003546
01/09/22 07:09 PM
01/09/22 07:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
VernMotor
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Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
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[quote=VernMotor
Mine did not Rod cut right though that girdle What did you attribute the rod failure to? Rod did not fail until the cy-wall crack..I believe it was too thin.. did't get sonic tested .. they all do now !! And I will add that is that last Engine I ran with motor mounts.. Got a motor plate after that.. what kind of motor mounts ? solids ? if solids were used, do you think a rubber mount on the passenger side, or both rubber mounts used with a limiter would have prevented the block cracking ? [/quote]
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Re: Does a girdle in a BB Mopar help?
[Re: VernMotor]
#3003548
01/09/22 07:14 PM
01/09/22 07:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
VernMotor
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Solid motor mounts with a limiter. block I had in the car before this crack a cy wall. always #3 . so I did't take the chance anymore
Last edited by VernMotor; 01/09/22 07:15 PM.
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