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Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: RobX4406] #1219913 04/24/12 11:22 PM 04/24/12 11:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 37 Minnesota S Shawnb OP member
Shawnb OP member S Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 37 Minnesota	Well damaging the engine is exactly what I'm afraid of. I have a lot invested in this engine. Today I added the Holley regulator and permenant gauge. Fuel pressure leveled off to 6-6.5 psi and not 10 and ranging wildly. Took it on its 1st real test drive today. It hooks up well and is crazy fast. Makes my other six pack Bee feel like an old truck. It's only lightly modified. We also have a 08 Shelby cobra GT500 convert with a Super Snake conversion 650 hp. I was convinced this new Bee would not keep up with the Cobra. Now I'm not so sure. After running long enough to heat up the O2 sensor it still reads 10:1 air/fuel ratio. It's still rich. The other Bees carbs are still on it. MSD and modified carbs come tomorrow. Carb shop said the new carbs power valve was damaged or not working??? Still I can't understand why my other Bee does not run rich but the new Bee with the 543" stroker does,,,,,,with those same carbs. More trial and error tomorrow. Question #2 is how much can we run this thing rich testing before we damage the engine like the last poster said? Thanks for the help.

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Shawnb] #1219914 04/25/12 03:39 AM 04/25/12 03:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,267 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,267 Bend,OR USA	Quote: Question #2 is how much can we run this thing rich testing before we damage the engine like the last poster said? Thanks for the help. Not very long, stop now As far as power with a six pak on a stroker I've ran as quick as 10.43 ET cork up on pump gas in my 518 C.I. low deck stroker with a six pak I ain't afriad of now ponys or snakes Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Shawnb] #1219915 04/25/12 03:39 AM 04/25/12 03:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio Challenger 1 Too Many Posts
Challenger 1 Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio	??

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Shawnb] #1219916 04/25/12 09:41 AM 04/25/12 09:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	have you pulled the plugs? Are you sure the sensor is right? I've only used one an el-cheapo unit I ran on my S/C'd 440 all it had was red yellow and green lights on it. Is it rich all the way thru the power band? what air cleaner do you have on it? You'd better have a 3" K&N style or better. The factory unit will choke that engine. Try running it w/ just the base plate. I'll bet your "rich" condition goes away. You also need to get your timing right. Buy a good light and set it for 18* initial and 38* total in full at 2200. As far as the "snake" You are compairing apples to onions. I bet the S/C set-up cost more than your entire engine....I know it cost more than mine. Your car should be easy into the mid 10's once you are done.

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1219917 04/25/12 02:05 PM 04/25/12 02:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 37 Minnesota S Shawnb OP member
Shawnb OP member S Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 37 Minnesota	I have a factory air cleaner from Mopar preformance with the K&N air filter. The O2 is an autometer analog which ranges from 8 to 16 I think. Not the colors only style. I think is a quality part from what ive read. I can try the no air cleaner lid idea. Correct modified carbs will be here in a couple of hours. Since it was running sooooo rich could I be reading the crap in the exhaust waiting to clean/burn off on the O2. its right after the collector. I brought the MSD ready to run dist and coil today. I didnt install it yet. The set up does not use a box. Its all inside the dist. Ive been told the tach (5" autometer) wont work with the MSD the way my new tach currently works with cheapo 440 source Dist. Is that correct? 7179145-20120323_174601.jpg (109 downloads)

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Shawnb] #1219918 04/25/12 02:12 PM 04/25/12 02:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	pull the sensor and clean it off. Not sure how the tach works w/ the MSD unit. No real reason the 440Source unit shouldn't work. I have a MP unit with the light Mr. Gasket springs. What plugs are you using? Might hey be too cold? I judge my a/f by reading a few plugs at the end of a pass...lol

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1219919 04/25/12 06:52 PM 04/25/12 06:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa M mikemee1331 master
mikemee1331 master M Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa	Quote: pull the sensor and clean it off. Not sure how the tach works w/ the MSD unit. No real reason the 440Source unit shouldn't work. I have a MP unit with the light Mr. Gasket springs. What plugs are you using? Might hey be too cold? I judge my a/f by reading a few plugs at the end of a pass...lol screwing around with timing/dist. is not going to solve your richness issue. how do you have your outboards set at idle? what plugs are you using? to answer the question on the timing light, is the ready to run MSD a mulit-spark Capacitor discharge ignition unit like their ECU's?

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: mikemee1331] #1219920 04/25/12 08:53 PM 04/25/12 08:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,318 Prospect, PA BSB67 master
BSB67 master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,318 Prospect, PA	Quote: Quote: pull the sensor and clean it off. Not sure how the tach works w/ the MSD unit. No real reason the 440Source unit shouldn't work. I have a MP unit with the light Mr. Gasket springs. What plugs are you using? Might hey be too cold? I judge my a/f by reading a few plugs at the end of a pass...lol screwing around with timing/dist. is not going to solve your richness issue. how do you have your outboards set at idle? what plugs are you using? to answer the question on the timing light, is the ready to run MSD a mulit-spark Capacitor discharge ignition unit like their ECU's? In light of the OPs question, I'm going out on a limb with mikemee1331 in making the crazy assumption that maybe it's rich. I suggest leaning it out. Here is a thread started by Wayne Smothers. It is very very insightful. Read it. If you don't understand it, you probably should not be messing with the carbs - get some help, or spend some time understanding all of the functions of each carb, and how each of those functions interact under different driving conditions. Good luck. https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post7017997

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: BSB67] #1219921 04/25/12 11:26 PM 04/25/12 11:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 953 Badham Co. Y Y3 70 BEE super stock
Y3 70 BEE super stock Y Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 953 Badham Co.	I hope your not running those moroso buna n carb gaskets those cause all kind of issues.

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: RobX4406] #1219922 04/27/12 05:07 PM 04/27/12 05:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 37 Minnesota S Shawnb OP member
Shawnb OP member S Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 37 Minnesota	So we added the NEW NEW carbs. They came from the carb shop and seem to work great. Cleaned off the O2 sensor. Still running 10-11:1 air fuel. Little rich but power is way better than it was. At the same time we removed the $79 cheapo dist from 440 source and added the MSD ready to run. With the built in curve it seems to get 34 degrees which is the total advance that gave us the highest torque (715) and the idle is 15. Is that too low? Should I have work done to the dist or can I set that myslef with adjustments on the new dist? Last edited by Shawnb; 04/27/12 07:55 PM.

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Shawnb] #1219923 04/27/12 10:24 PM 04/27/12 10:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	I'd try 18* initial and 36* total... 34* seems low to me.

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Challenger 1] #1219924 04/27/12 10:27 PM 04/27/12 10:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,504 delivering your oil nutso suave I Live Here
nutso suave I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,504 delivering your oil	interesting...

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: nutso suave] #1219925 04/28/12 02:38 AM 04/28/12 02:38 AM
Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 37 Minnesota S Shawnb OP member
Shawnb OP member S Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 37 Minnesota	I guess at this point my biggest question is 10-11:1 air fuel ratio still too rich? I cleaned off the O2 sensor. It is very responsive and seems to work properly. Should I trust it? If so might I still damage the engine?

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Shawnb] #1219926 04/28/12 02:48 AM 04/28/12 02:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,318 Prospect, PA BSB67 master
BSB67 master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,318 Prospect, PA	Did you read the above referenced thread?

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: BSB67] #1219927 04/30/12 01:04 AM 04/30/12 01:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 37 Minnesota S Shawnb OP member
Shawnb OP member S Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 37 Minnesota	I did read it. I understand most. I'm not sure it's a good idea for me to start screwing around with the newly modified carbs. I do realize it may be necessary if 10:1 air fuel is still too rich which I think it is. I think I will gain some power with a slightly leaner set up and more importantly I don't want to damage the engine with a too rich mixture. Otherwise runs great now. Should I continue screwing with it?

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Shawnb] #1219928 04/30/12 08:10 AM 04/30/12 08:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	Just because somebody "sets you up" a carb set up doesn't mean it won't require tuning. If you want the best results and you don't want to monkey with them take it for a dyno run and pay those guys to do it. Are you still at 34*? Add some timing. Is it rich all the way around? (idle, cruise WOT) If you can get to a track or a wide open road make a hard pass then pull over and pull a plug, that should tell you how you are doing.

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Shawnb] #1219929 04/30/12 02:51 PM 04/30/12 02:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,267 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,267 Bend,OR USA	Quote: I guess at this point my biggest question is 10-11:1 air fuel ratio still too rich? I cleaned off the O2 sensor. It is very responsive and seems to work properly. Should I trust it? If so might I still damage the engine? That is way to rich, it will foul plugs and can damage the cylinder walls. Check your manifold vacume in gear and then check the power valve rating, report back It sounds like the power valve is opening at cruise RPM, maybe not While you have the center carb off and apart look at the main jets and tell us the size on them also I've used, tuned and successfully race a six pak for 5 yrs, street motor on pump gas, 10.34 ET at 128.6 MPH cork up on pump gas in a 3450 lb Duster on street legal M/T Radials I made mine idle at or above 14.8 AFR and drive at between 13.8 to 14.9 AFR at light throttle with the power valve closed at or above 2000 RPM to 3000 RPM I have now(this year) switch heads to a set of Indy SR M.W. port size with a Indy 400-3 intake and 1050 Holley Dominator carb, I have it set up to idle at 14.8 to 16.1 and drive at low RPM, below 2000 RPM, around 15.0 and above, I'm still working on it so it may end up a tiny bit richer than it is right now as it does have a lean stumble coming off the idle circuit,especailly when cold not good Carbs are harder to tune than EFI, you got to take them apart to work on them and make changes Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Six Pack stroker...I am putting a 541 6bbl together [Re: Cab_Burge] #2911565 04/18/21 10:40 AM 04/18/21 10:40 AM
Joined: May 2016 Posts: 100 Louisiana BiomedTechGuy member
BiomedTechGuy member Joined: May 2016 Posts: 100 Louisiana	Yes, I'm resurrecting this thread because I have a new Bill Mitchell aluminum big bore RB block, and it's the foundation for a 541 6bbl build. Mostly street cruising including Power Tour desires, other highway trips, stop and go traffic, and definitely 1/4 mile grudge racing. All for fun. Keeping the 6bbl is a MUST, my personal choice. All 3 Holley carbs are modded with Promax parts, everything except the fuel bowls. That will make tuning changes easier. Innovate Motorsports 2 channel wideband O2 sensor system is onboard and works GREAT. It seems to me like running TF240s on a 541 wouldn't make sense, so I'm planning on the 270s. Goal is 700 ft lbs torque across as flat and wide an RPM range as possible and let the horsepower fall where it will. I'm hooked on my N96 hood, so I'm inclined to run the Modman intake with the 6bbl top and port it to MW port size for the 270s. Chassis, suspension, and drivetrain already setup for the power of the stroker. I'm running a Passon Performance 855 5 speed. All comments welcome. Thanks.

Re: Six Pack stroker...I am putting a 541 6bbl together [Re: BiomedTechGuy] #2995241 12/14/21 01:02 PM 12/14/21 01:02 PM
Joined: May 2016 Posts: 100 Louisiana BiomedTechGuy member
BiomedTechGuy member Joined: May 2016 Posts: 100 Louisiana	BUMP hoping for some feedback. I also re-read the entire thread, I'm wondering what happened with the rich (10-11:1 AFR) condition on the OP's stroker. What a FINE looking couple of B-bodies! Anyway, current "plan" is to go to the Indy ModMan intake as it is mandatory that my setup be a 6bbl and fit under the N96 hood, and have the Air Grabber functional, even though I may have to do modifications to it. I also want to run a K&N oval air filter as it is significantly taller than the factory unit, and is the only way I'll be able to feed a 541 enough air. 700 ft lbs torque is my power goal, as flat and wide as practical, and I'm sure the horsepower will fall in the 6XX range. Does anyone know if Hughes still does the "Stage X" (Stage 2 porting was mentioned) of the aluminum 6bbl intake? I can't see using TF240s on a 541, it seems like the Max Wedge port size is a given, and Indy has a CNC program for their ModMan intake that takes it to Max Wedge port size. The other 2 intakes I have for a 6bbl are my Edelbrock factory 2 plane 6bbl and the Weiand P3690982 6bbl intake from the 70s, "Cross Flow" I believe it was called, but either would have to be ported to Max Wedge port size.

Re: Six Pack stroker...I am putting a 541 6bbl together [Re: BiomedTechGuy] #2995284 12/14/21 03:12 PM 12/14/21 03:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,743 Moved to N.E. Tennessee GomangoCuda master
GomangoCuda master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,743 Moved to N.E. Tennessee	Quote The other 2 intakes I have for a 6bbl are my Edelbrock factory 2 plane 6bbl and the Weiand P3690982 6bbl intake from the 70s, "Cross Flow" I believe it was called, but either would have to be ported to Max Wedge port size. Neither of these can be ported to MaxWedge size without extensive welding and the Weiand with an airfilter is not going to fit your N96. If you must have a MaxWedge sixpack then just use the Modman, Last edited by GomangoCuda; 12/14/21 03:20 PM. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

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