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Re: full ign advance less than 30 [Re: CSK] #2989945
11/28/21 07:12 PM
11/28/21 07:12 PM
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Posts: 43,193
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
[quote

If its lean AFR in can make it ping & rattle fix that 1st [/quote] iagree scope wrench up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: full ign advance less than 30 [Re: Cab_Burge] #2990074
11/29/21 09:13 AM
11/29/21 09:13 AM
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lewtot184 Offline
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i did a pass through on a performance trends program using the basic info here. it showed 227psi cranking pressure and 8.6:1 dynamic compression. IMHO that will never work. i also ran a stock magnum cam through the program and was surprised it showed about 180psi and 7.9 dynamic; better but higher than i'd thought.. i also simulated a 6401 summit cam and it showed 170psi/6.9 dynamic; very doable. these are just exercises in mock up and real world may differ a little.

Re: full ign advance less than 30 [Re: Hangtowner] #2990081
11/29/21 09:35 AM
11/29/21 09:35 AM
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Pattison Texas
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Originally Posted by Hangtowner
Thanks for all the input. I will do a compression check and see what I get. Use that link and do the calculator. The heads are the 84cc ones. The best gasoline here is 91 octane with 10% ethanol. I don't know if the engine builder verified the 10.25 but it is likely. Although the carb is not completely dialed in, per the A/F meter it isn't going lean at full throttle. The engine builder has the same engine in a Charger with a wilder cam and much steeper gears and torque converter. I don't think I would want to go to a much wilder cam. I would rather try a thicker head gasket or shave some off the tops of the pistons. I drive the car on long trips and around town. The power before the ping sets in is nice, but I want to feel what it is really capable of.


What does the AFR read at WOT ??, what brand ? is it calibrated correct, if its 13.0 bring it down to the low 12's & see what it does, detonation will also make the ARF READING off on the guage, fatten it up !!!!!


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: full ign advance less than 30 [Re: CSK] #2990441
11/30/21 11:29 AM
11/30/21 11:29 AM
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you can throw all the fuel you want at this and isn't going to change the fact of too much cylinder pressure. all more fuel is going to do is create more carbon and unburnt fuel vapors that will make detonation worse. it's simply a wrong parts/build issue.

Last edited by lewtot184; 11/30/21 07:22 PM.
Re: full ign advance less than 30 [Re: Hangtowner] #2990570
11/30/21 05:34 PM
11/30/21 05:34 PM
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Atlanta, GA
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Tell us more about the build. How far are the pistons in the hole? What head gasket and how thick is it? Was the cam degreed when installed?

Re: full ign advance less than 30 [Re: lewtot184] #2990613
11/30/21 07:23 PM
11/30/21 07:23 PM
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Pattison Texas
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Originally Posted by lewtot184
you can throw all the fuel you want at this and isn't going to change the fact of too much cylinder pressure. all more fuel is going to do is create more carbon and unburnt fuel vapors that will make detonation worse. it's simply a wrong parts/build issue.


Yeah cause lean does not cause detonation smile you dont know until you try something, every combo is not EXACTLY the same, I to am at sea level& have fought & learned how to deal with detonation, somewhat LOL smile he still has not posted cranking pressure so WHO knows

Last edited by csk; 11/30/21 07:29 PM.

1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: full ign advance less than 30 [Re: CSK] #2990725
11/30/21 11:49 PM
11/30/21 11:49 PM
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Where are you buying your gas? Just because the pump says 91 doesn't mean that's what's coming out of the hose.

What is your engine operating temperature? You need to verify the gauge isn't lying to you. If it's running 195+ it will be way more apt to rattle than at 165-170.

Did you verify TDC indicated is actually TDC?

A friend of mine has a 67 New Yorker with an otherwise stock 915 iron head 440 with a 268 duration Purple cam in it and it behaves on what passes for hitest here. 91 no ethanol or 94 with.

Kevin

Re: full ign advance less than 30 [Re: CSK] #2990881
12/01/21 02:48 PM
12/01/21 02:48 PM
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Cranking pressure cold is 170. It has forged pistons, so I will try it again hot, there might be some expansion going on. Fuel is 91 Chevron with 10% ethanol, One can't get better at a pump in Ca.

Re: full ign advance less than 30 [Re: Hangtowner] #2990895
12/01/21 03:33 PM
12/01/21 03:33 PM
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Pattison Texas
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Originally Posted by Hangtowner
Cranking pressure cold is 170. It has forged pistons, so I will try it again hot, there might be some expansion going on. Fuel is 91 Chevron with 10% ethanol, One can't get better at a pump in Ca.


how are you checking total timing ? & at what rpm ?


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: full ign advance less than 30 [Re: CSK] #2991159
12/02/21 08:21 AM
12/02/21 08:21 AM
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if the cylinder pressure IS 170psi and assuming the test and gauge are correct then the engine doesn't have 10.25:1 with a short cam. that would be more like 9:1 with a stock cam. you can't have it both ways. something just doesn't add up here. i have a basically stock 440 with 9,3:1 compression and a mopar 272/.455 that will blow 180,... confused. If the engine IS the lower compression stock type cam build, then that sets up for a different solution to the problem. assuming the balancer TDC mark is correct then i'd say contaminants in the intake charge.

i have to wonder if the pistons are L2266 with a short cam? .120+ quench distance with a .039" gasket.

Last edited by lewtot184; 12/02/21 09:23 AM.
Re: full ign advance less than 30 [Re: Hangtowner] #2991182
12/02/21 09:58 AM
12/02/21 09:58 AM
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Posts: 8,162
USA
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Originally Posted by Hangtowner
Cranking pressure cold is 170. It has forged pistons, so I will try it again hot, there might be some expansion going on. Fuel is 91 Chevron with 10% ethanol, One can't get better at a pump in Ca.


The OBD-I Magnum 360 V8 in my post above has compression test results:

155 psi warm
170 psi warm with a shot of lube oil

Check all the “accuracy” suggestions in posts above.

One trick for spotting pinging in a particular cylinder that I learned that is seldom posted:

Buy a “fires in oil” sparkplug adapter and try it cylinder by cylinder.

These adapters move the position of the spark away from the center of the cylinder.
This is like retarding the ignition timing of that cylinder alone.
The adapter will not make a difference if the pinging is caused by carbon deposits in a cylinder that glow red hot at wide open throttle and high rpm.

The testing goes faster if you first use 2 adapters at a time, then switch to 1 adapter.

There is also an “opposite” individual cylinder ignition “advance“ trick:
Use an Iridium tip sparkplug with a wide gap one cylinder at a time.

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