wing on the back of a 68 Dodge Dart
#2988469
11/23/21 09:47 PM
11/23/21 09:47 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036 bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
OP
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OP
master
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
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I feel like I am giving up some mph. The ET typically is better than the MPH and I know that it is not a horsepower issue this bread Box does not go through the air Politely... any and all information comments and sarcasm welcome
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: wing on the back of a 68 Dodge Dart
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2988507
11/23/21 10:56 PM
11/23/21 10:56 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,209 New York
polyspheric
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,209
New York
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A wing, or any similar shape even if it's part of the bodywork, trades speed for rear wheel traction at high MPH (nothing significant below 100). When parallel to the air stream coming off the roof (probably not horizontal) it adds (almost) no downforce but still adds drag and makes the CD worse. A sharp down angle on the nose will effectively increase traction and slow up the car a lot. If you have no oversteer or non-linear RPM at speed, a wing will only slow you down.
Without major bodywork, have you considered what is legal for the nose?
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: wing on the back of a 68 Dodge Dart
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2988523
11/23/21 11:34 PM
11/23/21 11:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,252 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,252
Bend,OR USA
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One of the top speed SCTA racers at El Mirage dry lake told me years ago that anyone can run 125.MPH, a lot of guys can run 150 MPH But to get the same car that runs 150 MPH to run 175 MPH you will need to either double the HP or slick up the car and chassis to reduce the wind drag. I seem to remember him saying about 5% reduction in drag would do that for you on that car in his example, a full size door car, not a roadster or lakester
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 11/23/21 11:35 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: wing on the back of a 68 Dodge Dart
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2988532
11/24/21 12:00 AM
11/24/21 12:00 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I put a small wing on my car and it made a world of difference.. I was loosing traction at 130mph and I ended up loosing control of the car(multiple times) I went back to work and talked to the wind tunnel guys... they gave me a few ideas to try.. I still have that wing on the back.. car drives like a caddy now.. never had any more issues.. when I put the wing on it picked up 4mph with zero other changes.. I gave it 2* tilt upward and long enough past the back.. this was all trial and error but worked great.. I also put spill plates on it to give it more strength.. I am running 152 now and its smooth as silk
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Re: wing on the back of a 68 Dodge Dart
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2988564
11/24/21 08:00 AM
11/24/21 08:00 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,840 NW Indiana
fbs63
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,840
NW Indiana
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If you have fab skills, make your own. Make it full width, about 14-18" long and keep the surface level with the decklid. Spill plates that integrate nicely with the quarter panel and about 6-8" tall and a few inches past the end of the wing. Lastly put an adjustable wicker bill on the end. Make it be able to go from 1 1/2 tall to 1/4" tall. You will be surprised the difference it makes with different height adjustments. I don't have any good pic of the wing on Larry Boyd's GTX but its a perfect example. I can get some if you like. You can also put lexan behind the grille. That area catches the most air.
Last edited by fbs63; 11/24/21 08:06 AM.
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Re: wing on the back of a 68 Dodge Dart
[Re: FastmOp]
#2988574
11/24/21 09:00 AM
11/24/21 09:00 AM
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 348 Isle of Sheeps
Gtxxjon
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Isle of Sheeps
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NICE DART! We had this one 'back in the day'... It was good for 180mph, more of a pro-stock kinda deal? I think you need to stop the air 'spilling over the back', maybe even a modern day Nascar one would work?
Last edited by Gtxxjon; 11/24/21 09:08 AM.
Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero, thanx Horace!
There’s no point trying to fix stuff that ain’t broke,,, 'but if ain’t broke',,, you is not trying hard enough...
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Re: wing on the back of a 68 Dodge Dart
[Re: Gtxxjon]
#2988575
11/24/21 09:03 AM
11/24/21 09:03 AM
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 348 Isle of Sheeps
Gtxxjon
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 348
Isle of Sheeps
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A 69 wing might work if you is going 200 lol... Sorry I couldn't resist as I am a Nascar NUT!
Last edited by Gtxxjon; 11/24/21 09:06 AM.
Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero, thanx Horace!
There’s no point trying to fix stuff that ain’t broke,,, 'but if ain’t broke',,, you is not trying hard enough...
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Re: wing on the back of a 68 Dodge Dart
[Re: Gtxxjon]
#2988577
11/24/21 09:13 AM
11/24/21 09:13 AM
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 348 Isle of Sheeps
Gtxxjon
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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Isle of Sheeps
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They had ones like you are thinking about, a bit ricer?
Or just a 'good old fashioned' single FLAP.
Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero, thanx Horace!
There’s no point trying to fix stuff that ain’t broke,,, 'but if ain’t broke',,, you is not trying hard enough...
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Re: wing on the back of a 68 Dodge Dart
[Re: Gtxxjon]
#2988578
11/24/21 09:20 AM
11/24/21 09:20 AM
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 348 Isle of Sheeps
Gtxxjon
enthusiast
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Isle of Sheeps
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Front Bumper looks very high to me? Lower the whole grille and the bumper by two to three inches would help... Going over 150 means a CHUTE, more grief...
Last edited by Gtxxjon; 11/24/21 09:21 AM.
Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero, thanx Horace!
There’s no point trying to fix stuff that ain’t broke,,, 'but if ain’t broke',,, you is not trying hard enough...
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Re: wing on the back of a 68 Dodge Dart
[Re: fbs63]
#2988586
11/24/21 09:55 AM
11/24/21 09:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,077 Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
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Shelby Twp. Mi
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If you have fab skills, make your own. Make it full width, about 14-18" long and keep the surface level with the decklid. Spill plates that integrate nicely with the quarter panel and about 6-8" tall and a few inches past the end of the wing. Lastly put an adjustable wicker bill on the end. Make it be able to go from 1 1/2 tall to 1/4" tall. You will be surprised the difference it makes with different height adjustments. I don't have any good pic of the wing on Larry Boyd's GTX but its a perfect example. I can get some if you like. You can also put lexan behind the grille. That area catches the most air. Yeah Bob, Could we get a couple of pics? This is along the lines of what I was planning to add.
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Re: wing on the back of a 68 Dodge Dart
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2988592
11/24/21 10:09 AM
11/24/21 10:09 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,209 New York
polyspheric
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,209
New York
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The original question is NOT "how to make my car handle better?", but "how to make my car reach higher MPH?".
A wing parallel to the deck lid may be exactly at, below, or above the air coming off the roof. The wing height above the deck is another variable. This will also change as car speed increases. There is no easy answer except a wing slows the car down.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: wing on the back of a 68 Dodge Dart
[Re: bigdad]
#2988623
11/24/21 12:15 PM
11/24/21 12:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,848 A collage of whims
topside
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A collage of whims
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At speed, a few things are happening generally, and especially on a Dart of that era: The recessed grille is packing whatever air doesn't get through (which also rams into the compartment & firewall). (Venting the hood is commonplace among front-engine road-race cars, and now, the next-gen Cup cars.) Air getting under the car is bouncing off all the undercarriage stuff, especially the ft suspension. Air going over the roof becomes detached at the back glass & trunk lid, and roils (think an eddy in water), with the side-effect that it essentially pulls at the rear of the car. A spoiler or wing essentially pulls the air more smoothly over the back glass & trunk lid, so that it leaves the car less disturbed with less effective pull rearward. The Dart back glass is kind of a mini-version of the 2nd-Gen Charger, which had drag issues from the disturbance. The idea is to get the air to go smoothly around the car, not through it (except for cooling considerations) or under it, and to depart smoothly behind it. Spend some time watching airflow studies, or even water moving around rocks, and you'll see.
Fun fact: Adding a 4" angled spoiler to the back of the Melrose Missile picked up 7 MPH when it was stuck in the 150s. The aero effect in that case more than compensated for drag. Same thing added to a PS Camaro would make it more stable, but it would lose MPH.
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Re: wing on the back of a 68 Dodge Dart
[Re: topside]
#2988642
11/24/21 01:17 PM
11/24/21 01:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,201 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 20,201
Park Forest, IL
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[ Here's the one Mike put on the Valiant when he was spraying it. He said it drove weird above 120 before he put it on.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: wing on the back of a 68 Dodge Dart
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2988651
11/24/21 01:55 PM
11/24/21 01:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 154 Canada
cuda499
member
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member
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Posts: 154
Canada
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I feel like I am giving up some mph. The ET typically is better than the MPH and I know that it is not a horsepower issue this bread Box does not go through the air Politely... any and all information comments and sarcasm welcome I would watch rear shock data to tell me what the wing is doing...
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