How much compression increase when spraying methanol?
#2982751
11/07/21 01:34 PM
11/07/21 01:34 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
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jbc426
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I'm building a fresh 493" EFI'd pump gas RB motor that had 10.2 to one compression. I had been running the mechanical DC carbs, but am switching to a Holley HP unit with coil-on-plug and a Wilson ported Victor single plane with their throttle body.
Does anyone know how much I can bump up the compression using pump gas while injecting straight methanol controlled by the Holley computer? I've heard I can run at least 11 to 1, but have never used methanol injection before.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: How much compression increase when spraying methanol?
[Re: jbc426]
#2982768
11/07/21 02:13 PM
11/07/21 02:13 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,853 Pattison Texas
CSK
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I'm building a fresh 493" EFI'd pump gas RB motor that had 10.2 to one compression. I had been running the mechanical DC carbs, but am switching to a Holley HP unit with coil-on-plug and a Wilson ported Victor single plane with their throttle body.
Does anyone know how much I can bump up the compression using pump gas while injecting straight methanol controlled by the Holley computer? I've heard I can run at least 11 to 1, but have never used methanol injection before. It depends on how much methanol you spray, the more you spray, the HP ECU will pull fuel out to get the AFR where you set it. if it rattles add more Meth
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: How much compression increase when spraying methanol?
[Re: CSK]
#2982811
11/07/21 03:27 PM
11/07/21 03:27 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 712 Lake Villa Il
INTMD8
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Lake Villa Il
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Any reason why you wouldn't run E85?
69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
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Re: How much compression increase when spraying methanol?
[Re: INTMD8]
#2982939
11/07/21 10:13 PM
11/07/21 10:13 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,124 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
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Any reason why you wouldn't run E85? :iagree I run local pump E85 in my S/P car with 15.0t o 1 compression and love it Try it if you can get it their Good power and very good repeatability at the tracks
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: How much compression increase when spraying methanol?
[Re: polyspheric]
#2982962
11/07/21 11:00 PM
11/07/21 11:00 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 712 Lake Villa Il
INTMD8
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He said EFI so no need to worry about repeatability.
Use a fuel composition sensor and set it up to automatically compensate for varying levels of alcohol.
Yes straight methanol will make more power than E85 but hard to justify if you don't need all of what it has to offer. (and the complications that go along with it)
69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
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Re: How much compression increase when spraying methanol?
[Re: polyspheric]
#2983005
11/08/21 02:55 AM
11/08/21 02:55 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,124 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
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E 85 does NOT contaminate the OIL( ) like straight methanol alcohol does Ethanol alcohol has less BTU per gallon than Methanol alcohol does, I think Methanol has 85,000 BTU per gallon and Ethanol has 83 or 84,000 BTU. I'm not sure how many a gallon of pump E85 has with the additives and gasoline to keep them mixed
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 11/09/21 01:48 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: How much compression increase when spraying methanol?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2983369
11/09/21 11:06 AM
11/09/21 11:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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gregsdart
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E 85 does NOT contaminate the fuel like straight methanol alcohol does Ethanol alcohol has less BTU per gallon than Methanol alcohol does, I think Methanol has 85,000 BTU per gallon and Ethanol has 83 or 84,000 BTU. I'm not sure how many a gallon of pump E85 has with the additives and gasoline to keep them mixed Normally aspirated motors on methanol only; need from 5.5 afr to 4.9 aft depending on compression. E85 is about 9.6 AFR and pumpgas about 12? Afr for e10.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: How much compression increase when spraying methanol?
[Re: gregsdart]
#2983381
11/09/21 11:41 AM
11/09/21 11:41 AM
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Posts: 9,985 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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A charactoristics of methanol is its' ability to cool the mixture. I understand it takes five times as much heat energy out of the mixture as g gasoline. Blown alky motors run an AFR very fat; like 3.8 AFR. That allows a lot of boost along with 12-1 compression. But be aware methanol is a poison and soaks through the skin. So if you chose to use it keep in mind no skin contact and don't inhale fumes. When processed by the human body it changes to a poison that can eventually blind or kill.
Last edited by gregsdart; 11/09/21 11:43 AM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: How much compression increase when spraying methanol?
[Re: INTMD8]
#2983434
11/09/21 01:47 PM
11/09/21 01:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277 West Coast, USA
jbc426
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Any reason why you wouldn't run E85? I hadn't really considered it, but now that you ask and Cab recommended it, I've been looking into it. It would be nice to have 13 to 1 compression with no fear of detonation. The Holley HP set-up has an input for the E85 sensor and adjusts it accordingly. The only issue becomes where is e-85 available on the open road. There are lots of options near me, but fewer on the open road.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: How much compression increase when spraying methanol?
[Re: jbc426]
#2983444
11/09/21 02:10 PM
11/09/21 02:10 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 712 Lake Villa Il
INTMD8
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That's what I'm using (HP efi with composition sensor). Tons of E85 availability as far as I will probably drive this car but can see it could be a problem if you planned a long trip.
I have mine set up to put 6deg additional timing in at 65% alcohol and above (as I've found that range to take as much timing on most everything I've calibrated as 85%+) and pull it all out as it approaches 10%.
So if I couldn't find it on the road shouldn't be a problem to run straight 93 octane for a few tanks just to get where I'm going (and not have to adjust anything).
69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
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