Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Need advice on supercharged 340 build [Re: Cab_Burge] #1488353
08/22/13 11:08 PM
08/22/13 11:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11 Offline
super stock
dodgeboy11  Offline
super stock

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
I built a 360 I planned to boost but am giving it to my folks instead, but I did have the chance to dyno it. It's a .030" magnum block, magnum R/T heads, very mildly ported with 2.00"/1.55" valves (LS1 stock valves, aka free), a comp hydraulic roller with 216/224 @.050 and .534" (.501" with 1.5 rockers), 114 lsa installed at 110 icl, edelbrock rpm air gap, 750 Holley DP and 1-5/8" primary tube headers. Powering the water pump and alternator as I was too lazy to take them off for the dyno, it put out 388hp with 31 degrees total timing. I had the rings gapped extra for boost and have KB inverted dome pistons in there giving about 9.0:1 cr. Killer flat powerband and I expect it'd make 500 with 6-8 lbs of boost. Won't likely ever find out now as it's going into a 2000 Dakota 4x4.
Point being, this engine, designed for (light) boost, makes more power N/A. I think I would iron out the engine minus blower first, then go from there. I definitely agree that the heads are killing it. I doubt they flow over 200 cfm, and if they do, it isn't by much. My R/T's with the light buff I did were flowing about 240 at peak lift. After the freshen I did more extensive work with 2.02/1.60 and got them up to 275 or so. No dyno numbers now unfortunately. I'm less concerned with exhaust numbers. I do like to have as good an exhaust as possible, but I won't worry about the exit until I have all I can get out of the entrance. The exhaust will get out, it has to, it has nowhere else to go, but the more air you can cram into it, the more fuel you can burn and the more power you can make.
Looking back at this post I wonder if anything I wrote will actually help...

Re: Need advice on supercharged 340 build [Re: dodgeboy11] #1488354
08/23/13 05:07 PM
08/23/13 05:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
J
jim sciortino Offline
top fuel
jim sciortino  Offline
top fuel
J

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
If I read this correctly, it's 345ci with 8lbs boost and made 371hp.

I didn't think that was possible.

In the 80s, my brother's iron headed .030 over 340, with home ported iron heads, a flat solid cam in the .530 range, 8-1 comp., with 8-9lbs ran 10.60s in the 129 range at Englishtown...in an all steel 3,500# 70' Dart....street driven daily.

This was with a 6-71 and 2 750 Holleys, so not exactly an apples to apples....but 371hp at 8lbs seems mighty low.

Re: Need advice on supercharged 340 build [Re: jim sciortino] #1488355
08/23/13 11:38 PM
08/23/13 11:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 52
Pennsylvania
73bluebird Offline OP
member
73bluebird  Offline OP
member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 52
Pennsylvania
To address some of the comments posted the past two days regarding the cam, the dLi build listed a custom dLi grind, but the article did not give any details as to lift or other cam specs. As for the Xtreme Energy cam in the motor now, I don't think that anyone implied that it would make 375 hp in a naturally aspirated setup. That cam is described as a blower cam in the COMP Cams literature, but if there is a better alternative I'm open for suggestions.

As for the compression, it is my understanding that you don't want too high of a ratio with too much boost or there will be issues with detonation and running pump gas. If I am wrong in this belief please educate me. I have seen the charts that show how much boost can be run with any given compression ratio and figure that my current setup is close to pushing that limit while running 93 octane. What I don't know if there is much difference in performance between an engine with say 11.0:1 compression N/A vs. an engine with a lower compression ratio and boost pressure that nets an equivalent overall compression ratio.

Thanks again to all who have posted, I'm following this closely and enjoying the suggestions. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that 371 hp on this setup seemed a little anemic and that it should be capable of more power with some relatively easy upgrades.

Re: Need advice on supercharged 340 build [Re: 73bluebird] #1488356
08/30/13 05:48 PM
08/30/13 05:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 339
Gilroy,CA.
mopardude318 Offline
enthusiast
mopardude318  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 339
Gilroy,CA.
Quote:

Quote:

Camshaft: COMP Cams 20-223-3 Hydraulic
Int./Exh. Duration at 0.050 Lift: 268/280

That's a typo, right?




Yes, Duration at 0.050 Lift should be 268/230

As far as head upgrades, I've been researching the Mopar LA Super Commando heads. They're a little pricey, but seem like they have about the best flow numbers for exhaust. If I were to buy the heads assembled (as advertised by Mopar), what other parts would I have to track down to make them work with my engine?

Here's a pic of the engine as it currently sits, still with the custom intake, 144 blower and Demon carb.





I am interested in what you are using for a lower pulley? is it a modified chevy unit?


408 Stroker 533 HP 520 FT LBS...........................1970 Dart RMS AlterKation
Re: Need advice on supercharged 340 build [Re: 73bluebird] #1488357
08/30/13 08:05 PM
08/30/13 08:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Your not really running a mech fuel pump with that
blower... thats probably why its low on power... hell
guys running them on N/A engines have issues with enough flow

Re: Need advice on supercharged 340 build [Re: mopardude318] #1488358
09/01/13 10:57 AM
09/01/13 10:57 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 52
Pennsylvania
73bluebird Offline OP
member
73bluebird  Offline OP
member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 52
Pennsylvania
The lower pulley is the basic B&M unit, which I believe is intended for the SB Chevy application. There is a spacer behind the pulley which required some slight modification on the backside (the side that goes against the Mopar V-groove crank pulley) in order to get it contoured the same as the larger Mopar pulley and fit securely.

The mechanical fuel pump would have been used for the dyno testing; however, with the planned conversion to Powerjection throttle body fuel injection I will be converting to an electric fuel pump.

Re: Need advice on supercharged 340 build [Re: 73bluebird] #1488359
09/08/13 06:21 PM
09/08/13 06:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 339
Gilroy,CA.
mopardude318 Offline
enthusiast
mopardude318  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 339
Gilroy,CA.
soo...any updates?

here is my B&M 162 blower and cast manifold.



408 Stroker 533 HP 520 FT LBS...........................1970 Dart RMS AlterKation
Re: Need advice on supercharged 340 build [Re: mopardude318] #1904036
09/01/15 01:45 PM
09/01/15 01:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 52
Pennsylvania
73bluebird Offline OP
member
73bluebird  Offline OP
member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 52
Pennsylvania
It's been nearly 2 years since I first started this post, but I finally have the engine rebuilt and back in the car. After gathering the necessary parts, the engine was turned over to Shady Dell Speed Shop for the rebuild. The engine is a 1973 340 block bored out .030" with an early stock forged crank that is internally balanced. I used Mopar Performance Super Commando (P5155128) aluminum heads treated to a stage 1 port job with bowl blend, using offset 1.6 roller rockers. The cam is a Comp Cams hydraulic roller that uses retrofit hydraulic roller lifters. The intake is a single plane B&M designed for use with the 162 high energy roots-type B&M blower on top (intake was selected based on its low profile). The carb is an 850 cfm Quick Fuel blower carb. Headers are of the TTI polished and ceramic coated variety, which fit well and even cleared the quick ratio pitman and idler arms without any issues at all. There is also a 75 amp Powermaster alternator, Sanden SD7 "Shorty" AC compressor, and a Saginaw power steering pump with cooler mounted to the front of the engine. The engine is running at 8.5:1 compression and makes about 4 lbs of boost at 3900 RPM with the blower pulleys currently in place. Many parts were extremely difficult to find or non-existent, requiring custom fabrication. Then end result is something different, which will hopefully be reliable and maybe get a few looks at shows too.




Re: Need advice on supercharged 340 build [Re: 73bluebird] #1904094
09/01/15 02:38 PM
09/01/15 02:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,845
Tampa
D
DusterDave Offline
top fuel
DusterDave  Offline
top fuel
D

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,845
Tampa
The mill and trans look good! That should be fun on the street! I still think you should ditch the mechanical fuel pump and go with an electric pump, tho.


Gone to the dark side with an LS3 powered '57 Chevy 210
Re: Need advice on supercharged 340 build [Re: DusterDave] #1904139
09/01/15 03:16 PM
09/01/15 03:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,831
N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH Offline
master
6bblFLASH  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,831
N.E. Ohio
Beautiful engine drool

I have a DLI kit on a 440 and its a torq. beast.
Makes 3 or 6lbs boost depending on pulleys.
Current cam is a Comp Hyd. 231/237@.050 .525/110cl.
Tried the Summit 6401 224/234@.050 114cl. I want try it again.
And MP .509/114cl cam.
With the comp cam it ran a traction limited 11.35@120mph. @ 4,800 rpm. 3.33 rear gears.

They use ALOT of fuel, double 3/8ths lines 2 pumps.
But I found that it still was lean,12.8 AFR.Eventually figured out it was the metering blocks. Drilled the main wells to .177 and AFR went from 12.3 to 10.4 with the SAME jets.

So really nice set-up you are building,,nice work up bow

new 1050 carb.jpgnew 1050 carb.jpg

70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
Re: Need advice on supercharged 340 build [Re: dodgeboy11] #1904146
09/01/15 03:22 PM
09/01/15 03:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,831
N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH Offline
master
6bblFLASH  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,831
N.E. Ohio
Originally Posted By dodgeboy11
I built a 360 I planned to boost but am giving it to my folks instead, but I did have the chance to dyno it. It's a .030" magnum block, magnum R/T heads, very mildly ported with 2.00"/1.55" valves (LS1 stock valves, aka free), a comp hydraulic roller with 216/224 @.050 and .534" (.501" with 1.5 rockers), 114 lsa installed at 110 icl, edelbrock rpm air gap, 750 Holley DP and 1-5/8" primary tube headers. Powering the water pump and alternator as I was too lazy to take them off for the dyno, it put out 388hp with 31 degrees total timing. I had the rings gapped extra for boost and have KB inverted dome pistons in there giving about 9.0:1 cr. Killer flat powerband and I expect it'd make 500 with 6-8 lbs of boost. Won't likely ever find out now as it's going into a 2000 Dakota 4x4.
Point being, this engine, designed for (light) boost, makes more power N/A. I think I would iron out the engine minus blower first, then go from there. I definitely agree that the heads are killing it. I doubt they flow over 200 cfm, and if they do, it isn't by much. My R/T's with the light buff I did were flowing about 240 at peak lift. After the freshen I did more extensive work with 2.02/1.60 and got them up to 275 or so. No dyno numbers now unfortunately. I'm less concerned with exhaust numbers. I do like to have as good an exhaust as possible, but I won't worry about the exit until I have all I can get out of the entrance. The exhaust will get out, it has to, it has nowhere else to go, but the more air you can cram into it, the more fuel you can burn and the more power you can make.
Looking back at this post I wonder if anything I wrote will actually help... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/coool.gif" alt="" />



What RPM are trying to turn?


70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
Re: Need advice on supercharged 340 build [Re: 6bblFLASH] #1904226
09/01/15 05:05 PM
09/01/15 05:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 52
Pennsylvania
73bluebird Offline OP
member
73bluebird  Offline OP
member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 52
Pennsylvania
Cruising RPM at 70 mph will be around 2100-2200 (3.91 rear gear with 0.64 OD 5th gear). Also rev limiter will be set for 5000 or 5500 just for added protection, though I don't have any reason to be running that high. Not looking to go drag racing, just spirited jaunts around town.

In regards to mechanical fuel pump, I was advised by the engine builder that it would be sufficient for what I want to do. I was going to put a fuel injection setup on top, but after all the headaches I had getting the engine to this point, I didn't want the added trouble (or expense) of modifying fuel tank for electric pump and then having to deal with even more wiring under the hood.

Last edited by 73bluebird; 09/01/15 05:08 PM.
Re: Need advice on supercharged 340 build [Re: 73bluebird] #2976216
10/19/21 07:19 PM
10/19/21 07:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 339
Gilroy,CA.
mopardude318 Offline
enthusiast
mopardude318  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 339
Gilroy,CA.
73bluebird, nice build. Engine looks excellent! How is this engine running for you? Do you have any videos? Nice work. I finally have my little B&M supercharger on my 408. It’s going in my ‘74 W200, unfortunately with a slow shifting NP435.

Last edited by mopardude318; 10/19/21 07:20 PM.

408 Stroker 533 HP 520 FT LBS...........................1970 Dart RMS AlterKation
Page 2 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1