Victor Gen2 Hemi heads, exhaust pushrod clearance, info
#2665844
06/14/19 01:36 PM
06/14/19 01:36 PM
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ZIPPY
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Here's a pictorial clearance study comparing clearance with 2 different rockers, mocked up using a generic 3/8 MP pushrod.
Both shown with the valve closed. The clearance opens up/improves as the valve opens and the rocker moves.
The one with a little bit of clearance is with a stock replacement MP rocker, I believe 1.52 The one with no clearance (or at least, less than a strip of notebook paper) Is with an Indy steel roller rocker, I believe 1.55
Seems to make sense it is due to the different ratio.
I'm not too worried about it, I will use the stock replacement rockers as I collected them for awhile... and will continue the project. After sitting down with dividers and a caliper, comparing the ports to stock heads, I see why the Masters pointed me towards these victor heads for the big ci engine. They added an amazing amount of volume compared to stock. Under load, the pushrod will deflect away from the tight spot.
Without extra parts, a guy would be stuck. Being that this is a tube, it's not like I can just grind for clearance. I haven't looked into whether tapered pushrods are available with a cup on top, and I'm kind of doubting anyone makes that...but does anyone have info on that topic?
Last edited by ZIPPY; 06/14/19 01:53 PM.
Rich H.
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Re: Victor Gen2 Hemi heads, exhaust pushrod clearance, info
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2666139
06/15/19 10:07 AM
06/15/19 10:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,678 Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman
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Manton or Smith Brothers will make single or double taper pushrods for you. It looks so close I don't think they will fit. Let one of them make you heavier wall 3/8's instead.
2011 Drag Pak Challenger
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Re: Victor Gen2 Hemi heads, exhaust pushrod clearance, info
[Re: hemi-itis]
#2666558
06/16/19 03:54 PM
06/16/19 03:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Cab_Burge
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I'm no expert,but stayed in a Holiday Express once But I wonder if an offset pushrod seat would impove that. Terry Manton told me years back the PR needs only 10 thou clearance Terry told me before he pass that it was okay on a 426 hemi for them to rub a little, three burnt up single tapered exhaust pushrods later I ground more clearances into the KB aluminum street hemi block so they didn't rub at all. No more issues after that. The bad part was some one else had bought all the parts but the pushrods and they bought a set of comp Cams solid roller with the pushrod seats .250 lower than standard, wrong parts for the Hemi blocks
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Victor Gen2 Hemi heads, exhaust pushrod clearance, info
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2666760
06/17/19 09:14 AM
06/17/19 09:14 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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an8sec70cuda
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I've been told any rubbing at all will burn them up. I have straight 3/8" Mantons in mine, .134" wall IIRC. They are HEAVY. I did a TON of grinding on my KB block to get them to clear. The heads were ok.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Victor Gen2 Hemi heads, exhaust pushrod clearance, info
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2666764
06/17/19 09:17 AM
06/17/19 09:17 AM
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ZIPPY
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Ran out of time, still need to measure and make a judgement. Picked up my inherited pin gauge set last night, it's nice to have a dedicated tool and all, but will probably continue to use guitar strings as I have for quite a few years. Trend seems to be the only company who lists where the taper starts relative to the tip, and they have 2 choices... The largest dimension they have is 1 & 5/8, I would need more than that, like well over 2 inches, to clear the pushrod tubes. I'll try some others but it doesn't look like going tapered will help. Offset won't work as they have left and right, but not up and down (this would need to go up, or towards the center of the block slightly). I know custom lifters can be had, but no thank$. Standard pushrod seat height won't work...regular solids and Comp 829 cause worse clearance. Best I've found is with 3/8 pushrods and +.300 seat height lifters...best mockup is with Comp 861s/oilers but I am pretty sure the 87019 non-oiler would also do the trick. Might look into some Manton 11/32" for a hair more clearance, if they aren't cost prohibitive. I sure don't agree with Edelbrock's statement "all stock stuff works/is compatable". It's not going to clear the tube with a standard hydraulic or solid flat lifter and 3/8 pushrods.
Rich H.
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Re: Victor Gen2 Hemi heads, exhaust pushrod clearance, info
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2666766
06/17/19 09:23 AM
06/17/19 09:23 AM
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ZIPPY
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I've been told any rubbing at all will burn them up. I have straight 3/8" Mantons in mine, .134" wall IIRC. They are HEAVY. I did a TON of grinding on my KB block to get them to clear. The heads were ok. I appreciate that. Rubbing: No thanks. (Especially not on a thin tube pressed in) My block seems good (Although I've only checked one cylinder), but it's tight to the tube pressed into the head. The Edelbrock heads seem like a costly change of plans, but after seeing them up close, I see why Dwayne and Chuck both steered me that way.
Last edited by ZIPPY; 06/17/19 10:53 AM.
Rich H.
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Re: Victor Gen2 Hemi heads, exhaust pushrod clearance, info
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2666806
06/17/19 10:40 AM
06/17/19 10:40 AM
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Posts: 2,678 Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman
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You didn't say if you were using a hyd, solid or roller cam. Lets says you are using a solid. I'm reaching for straws here but the Barton/Trend tool steel lifers are made to hydraulic length. This raises up the lifter cup around .200". Would this help you? I'm not sure. I've put together a few of these Victor Jr. motors and they always fit for me but I'm using Stage V rockers. YRMV. I know it's a reach. Makes me want to go home and mock up another one I have and see if I have the same problem.
2011 Drag Pak Challenger
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Re: Victor Gen2 Hemi heads, exhaust pushrod clearance, info
[Re: rickseeman]
#2666812
06/17/19 10:52 AM
06/17/19 10:52 AM
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ZIPPY
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Hey Rick, this one is getting a solid street roller.
The rocker type, and the ratio is probably the biggest thing.
If I'm looking at it correctly, the shorter the "arm" on the pushrod side (higher the rocker ratio), the more likely the pushrod will hit the bottom of the tube. At least it seems this way comparing 1.52 to 1.55+
I've got good piston to valve clearance (now that I'm on my second cam), my intake valve relief has a little extra to accomodate the Edelbrock valve, so that all seems good to go.
Pretty small bump in the road really, but something tells me I'm not the first to encounter this.
Rich H.
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Re: Victor Gen2 Hemi heads, exhaust pushrod clearance, info
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2963979
09/14/21 11:31 AM
09/14/21 11:31 AM
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Hot 340
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Hey Rick, this one is getting a solid street roller.
The rocker type, and the ratio is probably the biggest thing.
If I'm looking at it correctly, the shorter the "arm" on the pushrod side (higher the rocker ratio), the more likely the pushrod will hit the bottom of the tube. At least it seems this way comparing 1.52 to 1.55+
I've got good piston to valve clearance (now that I'm on my second cam), my intake valve relief has a little extra to accomodate the Edelbrock valve, so that all seems good to go.
Pretty small bump in the road really, but something tells me I'm not the first to encounter this.
so Zippy what was your resolution for this? Im have clearance issues too with a 3/8 pushrod and a victor head. Im thinking some .110 wall 5/16 will work. Using a small solid roller with 829b oiler rollers.
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Re: Victor Gen2 Hemi heads, exhaust pushrod clearance, info
[Re: Dragula]
#2964196
09/14/21 10:10 PM
09/14/21 10:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,120 Byron, NY
W.I.N. Racing
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Most of my push rods rub, not enough to deflect the rod but they do touch...and on purpose. The benefit of a rubbing push rod is it will dampen/stabilize out the bowing characteristics while in motion. I use 7/16th Double tapered Push rods from Manton.`
'01 P1500, Blown/Inj BAE,/Veney ,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60 '01 Dodge 3500 S Cummins Auto, Fresh air kit, 4" Exhaust, '05 Dodge Magnum R/T - Too Much to list '60 Willys CJ5 '01 International LPX - Project,DT466, Allison '64 Plymouth Valiant, Inj 528 Hemi, 2spd
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Re: Victor Gen2 Hemi heads, exhaust pushrod clearance, info
[Re: Hot 340]
#2965771
09/20/21 02:40 PM
09/20/21 02:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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ZIPPY
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so Zippy what was your resolution for this? To recap, I had interference problems mocking up with the Indy high ratio roller exhaust rockers (have seen this problem over the last few years with a couple engines on social media too...it's fairly common. Those engines were big time pro built deals so I kept my thoughts to myself). Stock replacement rockers did not have pushrod clearance problems. So, the fix was simple...I used the stock replacement MP rockers on the exhaust side, sold the Indy exhaust rockers for half what the set cost+ship, kept the Indy high ratio on the intake. This kind of thing drives some people nuts, but it's a HEMI and historically it's super common to use different rockers intake and exhaust. Tiny bit of experience under my belt, tiny bit of knowledge, got all my money back, I'm calling it a win. Having the gut feeling that was probably the path I'd go with, I went and scrounged up a pile of stock replacement rockers and checked the ratios to investigate the "hemi rocker ratios are all over the place" folklore. I did find a shred of truth to that old tale and believe it is true to a certain extent....in the sample I tested OEM stock rockers were the worst....the perennially overpriced MP replacements were definitely better and measured higher. Here is the thread about checking OE style rockers/ cherry picking Click here It seems now the main problem is getting Edelbrock to ship any kind of part for a Chrysler. I might even buy another pair of Victors just to have them on hand, but they apparently aren't making anything.
Rich H.
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Re: Victor Gen2 Hemi heads, exhaust pushrod clearance, info
[Re: crowbait]
#2965977
09/21/21 12:18 PM
09/21/21 12:18 PM
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ZIPPY
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That's good thinking there, I did I play with that, and my mockups showed me there was nothing to be gained where I needed it. Using the trusty Jesel adjustable checking pushrod I tried up to 4 or 5 threads sticking out, I also tried "the cup just barely clears the underside of the rocker" (meaning no threads sticking out at all) and neither one really made a licks worth of difference in the area I needed it. It was worth a try anyway, especially with the 572 being my first Gen 2 Hemi and all/not knowing what to expect. The easy fix was to not use Indy exhaust rockers on that config Set it up with around 1 and 1/2 sticking out if I remember correctly. This is an older thread.......I fired this engine up 4-26-2020, it all worked out.
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