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Which alternator? #2963672
09/13/21 02:52 PM
09/13/21 02:52 PM
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Ohio
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jlatessa Offline OP
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jlatessa  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,317
Ohio
Want to replace our 60? amp squareback on our 70 RT.

Need maybe 100 amp? for additional brake lights and adding an electric
fuel pump.

Prefer to use stock mountings and single belt.

Thanks, Joe

Re: Which alternator? [Re: jlatessa] #2963689
09/13/21 03:38 PM
09/13/21 03:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,801
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: Which alternator? [Re: jlatessa] #2963783
09/13/21 08:14 PM
09/13/21 08:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,307
BC, Canada
Black_Bee Online happy
pro stock
Black_Bee  Online Happy
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,307
BC, Canada
Originally Posted by jlatessa
Want to replace our 60? amp squareback on our 70 RT.
Need maybe 100 amp? for additional brake lights and adding an electric
fuel pump.

Prefer to use stock mountings and single belt.

Thanks, Joe


If you just have an electric fuel pump and some brighter brake lights, then you likely don't need 100A. The 60A Denso alternator from a Toyota 4-Runner is a popular upgrade. It fits with either a bracket kit, or just modifying your existing brackets. Actually its not even the brackets that need to be adjusted, but the spacers between alternator and head.

If you do need 100A, I recently upgraded from the previously mentioned 60A Denso and (based on info here on Moparts) I went with a GM CS-130 alternator. I specifically used a 335-1011 which is a 105amp version of this alternator that came on 1989 Cadillac. You need the matching plug too.

This alternator physically bolts to my 383 like it was factory equipment. All I did was make a new spacer for between the alternator and head and re-wire. 105A needs a pretty sizable wire between alternator and battery, I went with 6 AWG and bypassed the ammeter long ago. This is an internally regulator alternator, so you remove your stock voltage regulator and wire this alternator up as required. It doesnt look stock (its very obviously a GM piece) but it is working great on my install.

beer

855670ba-d1ca-43fa-94e4-c8aa37830d68.jpg

Paul
'69 Super Bee 383 EFI Turbo
Re: Which alternator? [Re: Black_Bee] #2963796
09/13/21 08:34 PM
09/13/21 08:34 PM
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Posts: 15,358
Omaha Ne
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TJP Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Omaha Ne
Originally Posted by Black_Bee
Originally Posted by jlatessa
Want to replace our 60? amp squareback on our 70 RT.
Need maybe 100 amp? for additional brake lights and adding an electric
fuel pump.

Prefer to use stock mountings and single belt.

Thanks, Joe


If you just have an electric fuel pump and some brighter brake lights, then you likely don't need 100A.

If you do need 100A, I recently upgraded from the previously mentioned 60A Denso and (based on info here on Moparts) I went with a GM CS-130 alternator. I specifically used a 335-1011 which is a 105amp version of this alternator that came on 1989 Cadillac. You need the matching plug too.

This alternator physically bolts to my 383 like it was factory equipment. All I did was make a new spacer for between the alternator and head and re-wire. 105A needs a pretty sizable wire between alternator and battery, I went with 6 AWG and bypassed the ammeter long ago. This is an internally regulator alternator, so you remove your stock voltage regulator and wire this alternator up as required. It doesnt look stock (its very obviously a GM piece) but it is working great on my install.

beer
|

iagree

Re: Which alternator? [Re: jlatessa] #2963818
09/13/21 09:36 PM
09/13/21 09:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,671
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Andrewh Offline
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I prefer to use auto store parts, so again, if you don't really need 100 amps the 80 m bodies use a 78 amp alt that is just a square back, bolts in place of the round back with a longer swing arm for a small block. I used the mr g's chrome one for 10 bucks.
not sure on a bb.

Re: Which alternator? [Re: Andrewh] #2963922
09/14/21 08:53 AM
09/14/21 08:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,317
Ohio
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jlatessa Offline OP
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jlatessa  Offline OP
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Ohio
Nacho gave me a lead on exactly what I wanted;

Tuff Stuff #8509CSP, 100 Amp square-back, natural finish, stock two-wire, single pully.

Around $200, shipped, Jegs

Thanks, Joe

Re: Which alternator? [Re: jlatessa] #2963928
09/14/21 09:18 AM
09/14/21 09:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,824
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Kirkland, Washington
Originally Posted by jlatessa
Nacho gave me a lead on exactly what I wanted;

Tuff Stuff #8509CSP, 100 Amp square-back, natural finish, stock two-wire, single pully.

Around $200, shipped, Jegs

Thanks, Joe



I just bought and installed one of those last week in my 70 Cuda after the old (20 year) chrome alternator died due to an open armature. The Tuff Stuff unit is gorgeous.

Re: Which alternator? [Re: jlatessa] #2963964
09/14/21 10:47 AM
09/14/21 10:47 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 246
Cranberry Twp PA (North of Pit...
rumblefish72 Offline
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rumblefish72  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 246
Cranberry Twp PA (North of Pit...
Your requirements are different from mine but I've been researching this same topic. I'm going to electric fans, EFI, electric fuel pump, decent stereo, AC, etc on my next big upgrade. I figure that with everything on, I'll draw well over 100 amps. And I plan to use a serpentine drive setup with a tensioner so I don't have to worry as much about belt stretch. A single V-belt is good up to 150 amps (https://www.mechman.com/faqs/) so your solution can still use a belt. if you go to an electric fuel pump (as mentioned) allowing the removal of the mechanical fuel pump and creating space for a low-mount alternator, I think that the AR Engineering 90 amp low-mount Denso would be a good solution http://arengineering.com/products/90-amp-low-mount-alternator/. But if you are looking for a >= 150 amp solution, read on.

**** Standard Disclaimer **** this is my research and I'm not and electrical engineer who specializes in automotive 12 volt charging systems ... use this technical info at your own risk! Don't cause a fire in your musclecar due to faulty alternator configuration, installation and bad wiring!! You can't use a stock type wiring harness with any high-amp alternator. And there's no way you can push this many amps through the amp gauge in the dashboard. You can't use the alternator to charge a significantly drained battery. Thee are many other warnings that I have not listed here!

For anyone who is looking to do a total upgrade to a modern-style, highly-efficient, high-amps at idle charging system I would recommend a Denso SC based alternator solution. I do not need to maintain any type of OEM look on my vintage 1972 car so a different alternator case is not an issue. Denso (Nippondenso) is a market leader for the OEMs in alternators. AR Engineering uses Denso alternators in their kits and AndyF always does his due diligence so he must think pretty highly of the Denso solution. The marketing brochure for the SC is at: https://densoautoparts.com/alternators.aspx . SC stands for "Segment Conductor" and has to do with the stator winding design. The SC design is commonly referred to as a "Hairpin" alternator. By using a square copper wire in the stator winding, you can pack much more copper in over a round wire stator design. More copper typically means more generating capacity. In fact, the SC actually uses two separate 3-phase windings into the stator. You will see some mention a "6-phase" stator which is technically incorrect ... it is actually 2 windings of 3-phase. Anyway, this is highly efficient and can generate big amps at idle RPM. The Denso SC has a modular design so that it pretty much can be configured to fit all sorts of OEM requirements (Mopar, GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc). To get a feel for the modularity and adaptability of the Denso SC, take a look at: http://www.metroautoinc.com/Download/Denso%20Hair%20Pin%20Parts%20Catalog.pdf . There are all sorts of mounting options depending on which front half and back half case are used. And if you've read up to this point, take a look at the Denso technical manual for starters and alternators: https://www.denso.ua/media/815126/160747-denso_manual-starters-en-alternators_a4_web_locked.pdf . Skip past the starter section and jump to Part 2 - Denso Alternators (page 42). Lots of excellent technical info in there. I read the first section on starters and accidently learned all sorts of info on ISS (Idling Stop System) and battery management systems. Ok - have we gone far enough down the rabbit hole?

I went out to RockAuto and purchased a rebuilt 220 amp alternator for a 2012 Ram 1500 with 5.7 engine https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=6633168&cc=1502255&pt=2412&jsn=999 This alternator was pretty much substandard with mostly cleaned up but used parts and crappy bearings. I put another $200 into it at the local rebuilder shop to get it up to snuff. The case, stator and rotor were acceptable but the rest was marginal. The key features to this alternator were the pivot bolt mounting on the case, the battery and field connections are "side" mount so you can push the alternator back almost against the head since the connections are not back there and finally, it is externally regulated so you can use the standard Mopar external voltage regulator. Something like: https://store.alternatorparts.com/adjustable-regulator-conversion-kit-12-volt.aspx . Notice that this A-Type charging system (full 12 volts to one side of the alternator field and the voltage regulator modulates the other side of the field connection to ground) voltage regulator can handle 10 amp field draw from the alternator ... the 220 amp alternator needs extra amps from the voltage regulator to dive the "field" in the alternator. The stock voltage regulator is 5 amps max through the field ... that's not enough to get 220 amps out of the stator. If you looked at the MetroAutoInc .pdf, you will see that there is a whole section on internal voltage regulators. I am looking at these to see if I can find an internal voltage regulator (S, I, L) that would work with all the rest of the alternator parts just so I don't have to run that external voltage regulator. The problem is that if the internal voltage regulator ever fails, I would need to carry a spare since my alternator configuration appears to be unique and not something COTS. There are other internal voltage regulator options that have monitoring feedback that you could wire into a spare input lead on your ECU. That might be interesting to have from a data logging standpoint. And one last point, for the racecar guys with battery in the trunk and a cutoff switch ... you really need a two circuit cutoff switch that will cut the power to the field on the alternator a split second before disconnecting the battery. If you disconnect the battery on a running engine, you can fry the rectifiers in the alternator. I use a Flaming River cutoff switch https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fla-fr1013

Here's a pic of what all this looks like so far ....

thumbnail_210907HemiEnginePic.jpg
Last edited by rumblefish72; 09/14/21 11:25 AM.

1972 Pro-Street 'Cuda, 500" Eagle stoker B Block, Eddy RPM heads, Victor Manifold, 850 Mighty Demon, Hemi 4 Speed, Dana 60 w/4.88 gears - Built by Hansen Racing Middlesex - NJ






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