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Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: AndyF] #2939853 07/04/21 01:36 PM 07/04/21 01:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 30,995 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 30,995 Oregon	If you google "Richmond 5 speed shifting problems" you'll get pages and pages of hits. Lots of complaints on the subject and they all sound like my transmission. Mine shifts just fine if you are driving around town but if you try to bang gears then it just isn't happening. It takes X amount of time to shift regardless of how hard you pull on the lever. Pulling harder doesn't make it go faster, it shifts when it is ready to shift. This video gives a pretty good explanation of the issue but I've never taken mine apart to try the fix. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UnFDaAdBaM

Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: AndyF] #2939997 07/04/21 10:46 PM 07/04/21 10:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,552 Rittman Ohio fourgearsavoy I Live Here
fourgearsavoy I Live Here Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,552 Rittman Ohio	I have a Richmond 5-speed that shifted hard but I always thought it was the Street-twin clutch . I pulled it and took the gears to Liberty's and had them faceplated now it shifts like butter at 6500 RPM. I have done the mods outlined in the link Andy mentioned to few Richmond transmissions and it makes a big difference in the shifting. The good lube like Penzoil Syncromesh oil works well too and stay away from synthetic lube because it doesn't let the syncro rings "grab" the cones on the gears. Gus 64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60

Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2940163 07/05/21 02:09 PM 07/05/21 02:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,236 fredericksburg,va C cudaman1969 master
cudaman1969 master C Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,236 fredericksburg,va	I don’t have too much info on a friends Nash in a street-race 68 Camero (1970s) , 331 cu in modified production engine from Rhere & Morrison. Very high RPM engine, never really knew how fast because he bagged all the time looking for suckers money. 6.50s in the eight at will. Point is he never had a problem power shifting that trans in the 7500-8500 or more range. Can’t think of R&M drivers name right now who did the heads.

Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: cudaman1969] #2940188 07/05/21 03:47 PM 07/05/21 03:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,552 Rittman Ohio fourgearsavoy I Live Here
fourgearsavoy I Live Here Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,552 Rittman Ohio	Originally Posted by cudaman1969 I don’t have too much info on a friends Nash in a street-race 68 Camero (1970s) , 331 cu in modified production engine from Rhere & Morrison. Very high RPM engine, never really knew how fast because he bagged all the time looking for suckers money. 6.50s in the eight at will. Point is he never had a problem power shifting that trans in the 7500-8500 or more range. Can’t think of R&M drivers name right now who did the heads. If it was an early Doug Nash box shifting that high RPM there were no syncros in it . I'm not sure when they came out with the "street" 4+1 syncronized deal but I'm pretty sure it came along in the mid 80's Gus 64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60

Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2940211 07/05/21 05:08 PM 07/05/21 05:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,477 Minnesota Hemi_Joel master
Hemi_Joel master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,477 Minnesota	I have a richmond/Nash 5 speed in my 442 with 2.75 rear gears. WIth the deep 1st gear, it works out very nice. I never wished it had another gear. It is kind of a clunky shifting thing, though. The 6 speed in my hot rod is a t56 magnum 6 speed with 2 overdrives. The big cammed Hemi dosen't like to cruise under 2300 rpm. With 30" tires and 4.57 rear gears, I can't get it into 6th until 70 mph. 5 gears would be enuff. [img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img] 31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"

Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2940262 07/05/21 08:13 PM 07/05/21 08:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,236 fredericksburg,va C cudaman1969 master
cudaman1969 master C Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,236 fredericksburg,va	Originally Posted by fourgearsavoy Originally Posted by cudaman1969 I don’t have too much info on a friends Nash in a street-race 68 Camero (1970s) , 331 cu in modified production engine from Rhere & Morrison. Very high RPM engine, never really knew how fast because he bagged all the time looking for suckers money. 6.50s in the eight at will. Point is he never had a problem power shifting that trans in the 7500-8500 or more range. Can’t think of R&M drivers name right now who did the heads (Lee Shepard). If it was an early Doug Nash box shifting that high RPM there were no syncros in it . I'm not sure when they came out with the "street" 4+1 syncronized deal but I'm pretty sure it came along in the mid 80's Gus Never rode with him so you could be right. He could drive a guys F/modified real good

Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: cudaman1969] #2940265 07/05/21 08:19 PM 07/05/21 08:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 30,995 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 30,995 Oregon	I've seen a bunch of Doug Nash boxes behind high winding SB engines over the years. Modified cars would shift at 9000 or 10,000 with no problem. But, I'm pretty sure those boxes had all been reworked and prepped by experts. The street 4+1 box couldn't be powershifted right out of the box. I don't know about the current Richmond 5 speed boxes but based on the little bit I've heard I don't think they are much better than the original Doug Nash boxes. I don't think Richmond ever changed the syncro design, at least they hadn't changed it a few years ago when I last looked into it.

Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: AndyF] #2940328 07/05/21 11:43 PM 07/05/21 11:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington M madscientist master
madscientist master M Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington	I watched the video. His explanation of gear weight may have some relevance but I doubt it. It is RPM and clutch disc weight and the number of teeth on the syncro and gear that make them not shift at rpm. You can easily remedy this by slick shifting the sliders, gears and syncros. Then reassemble the box with all the parts. It will shift smooth and clean at whatever RPM you have the balls for. Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: hemienvy] #2941130 07/08/21 10:29 AM 07/08/21 10:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,789 Hamilton, Ontario Canada Magnum master
Magnum master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,789 Hamilton, Ontario Canada	Originally Posted by hemienvy I'm interested in shift quality I have driven many 833's. With every clutch you can think of. Slick shifted too. It's removing every 2nd tooth on speed gear. Slick shifted opens shift quality and high rpm needs but that is IT. Slow shifting around town is not happening. No overdrive and has external linkage. TKO500's are like old truck transmissions. They got a bit of respect in the hot rod world due to their torque ratings but reading your request AND all the replies. The answer is T56. AndyF mentions it will go in when it's ready. A T56 is always ready. It literally feels like there is nothing to wait for. It slips into every gear no matter how slow or fast you pull the shifter. No matter how slow you pull it in gear, once it's in the gate it almost falls in. Even neutral to first, instantly stops the input shaft and it falls in. These are things NO formulas or bullet point advertising can tell you. The only video I have to demonstrate my opinion was right after we installed the trans. I still was looking for higher/sooner disc release and we still had a super tall rear gear, 3.27. I was also a little shy on the 1 to 2 since the tires spin a bit. https://youtu.be/OmY__bhaR20 https://youtu.be/KzTdXe9GU5g Last edited by Magnum; 08/09/21 09:53 PM. 69 Super Bee, 93 Mustang LX, 04 Allure Super

Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: Magnum] #2941174 07/08/21 12:07 PM 07/08/21 12:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington M madscientist master
madscientist master M Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington	Originally Posted by Magnum Originally Posted by hemienvy I'm interested in shift quality I have driven many 833's. With every clutch you can think of. Slick shifted too. It's removing every 2nd tooth on speed gear. Slick shifted opens shift quality and high rpm needs but that is IT. Slow shifting around town is not happening. No overdrive and has external linkage. TKO500's are like old truck transmissions. They got a bit of respect in the hot rod world due to their torque ratings but reading your request AND all the replies. The answer is T56. AndyF mentions it will go in when it's ready. A T56 is always ready. It literally feels like there is nothing to wait for. It slips into every gear no matter how slow or fast you pull the shifter. No matter how slow you pull it in gear, once it's in the gate it almost falls in. Every neutral to first, instantly stops the input shaft and it falls in. These are things NO formulas or bullet point advertising can tell you. The only video I have to demonstrate my opinion was right after we installed the trans. I still was looking for higher/sooner disc release and we still had a super tall rear gear, 3.27. I was also a little shy on the 1 to 2 since the tires spin a bit. https://youtu.be/OmY__bhaR20 https://youtu.be/KzTdXe9GU5g I drive my slick shifted box everywhere. You just grind every other tooth off the syncros and put it back together with the struts and springs and send it. Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: madscientist] #2941203 07/08/21 02:11 PM 07/08/21 02:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2016 Posts: 906 Washington H hemienvy OP super stock
hemienvy OP super stock H Joined: Jun 2016 Posts: 906 Washington	MadScientist, Are you grinding just the synchro, or also the slider and the gear ? How high an RPM can you shift ?

Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: hemienvy] #2941406 07/08/21 11:57 PM 07/08/21 11:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington M madscientist master
madscientist master M Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington	Originally Posted by hemienvy MadScientist, Are you grinding just the synchro, or also the slider and the gear ? How high an RPM can you shift ? Syncro, slider and gears. I just don’t do first gear because there is no need to do that gear. So it saves some time behind the grinder. Then you just assemble the box like a stocker with the struts and springs and send it. In a pinch I had to use my street box in my race car and I didn’t have time to pull the syncros and struts. So I bolted it in. I was shifting at 8500 with a Soft Lock clutch. Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: madscientist] #2953084 08/12/21 10:36 AM 08/12/21 10:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,789 Hamilton, Ontario Canada Magnum master
Magnum master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,789 Hamilton, Ontario Canada	I am not against slick shifting because of some advice from a grandpa. I tried it twice and did not like it for normal driving. It does make an 833 easy to shift fast but I found slow shifting was not smooth or quiet. Post a video of slow shifting your slick shift. It was 30 years ago. My memory is not clear. 69 Super Bee, 93 Mustang LX, 04 Allure Super

Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: Magnum] #2953098 08/12/21 11:20 AM 08/12/21 11:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington M madscientist master
madscientist master M Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington	Originally Posted by Magnum I am not against slick shifting because of some advice from a grandpa. I tried it twice and did not like it for normal driving. It does make an 833 easy to shift fast but I found slow shifting was not smooth or quiet. Post a video of slow shifting your slick shift. It was 30 years ago. My memory is not clear. Did you leave the syncros, dogs and springs in when you did it? You do that and they will shift like any other box with syncros. Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: madscientist] #2956142 08/21/21 10:07 PM 08/21/21 10:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,789 Hamilton, Ontario Canada Magnum master
Magnum master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,789 Hamilton, Ontario Canada	It was over 25 years ago. Do not remember the details but I think the instructions came from the DC manual. Any vid of slow shifting a slick shift? 69 Super Bee, 93 Mustang LX, 04 Allure Super

Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: Magnum] #2956156 08/21/21 10:31 PM 08/21/21 10:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2016 Posts: 906 Washington H hemienvy OP super stock
hemienvy OP super stock H Joined: Jun 2016 Posts: 906 Washington	I would like to be able to shift from 1-2, from 2-3, and maybe from 3-4 at 7000~~7200 RPM, I want to keep the synchros and don't mind a slightly slower shift, but I'm not sure if these Richmond trannys like the RPM to shift. My goals to achieve this would include "perfect" bellhousing alignment and clutch adjustment. And, evidently, not using a synthetic fluid.

Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: Magnum] #2956212 08/22/21 09:08 AM 08/22/21 09:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington M madscientist master
madscientist master M Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington	Originally Posted by Magnum It was over 25 years ago. Do not remember the details but I think the instructions came from the DC manual. Any vid of slow shifting a slick shift? No video, but my wife drives the car. If you did it by the DC book they tell you to leave the syncros, dogs and springs out. You can do that if it’s a dedicated drag car. If you want to drive it like normal on the street, you grind every other tooth off the syncro just like you do the gears and put it all back together like it is stock. It will shift like it did stock, only cleaner and smoother because the syncros are still in there. And, I never ever take any teeth off of first gear or the first gear side of the 1-2 slider or the first gear syncro. That’s just more work and it doesn’t need to be done. Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: hemienvy] #2956213 08/22/21 09:12 AM 08/22/21 09:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington M madscientist master
madscientist master M Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington	Originally Posted by hemienvy I would like to be able to shift from 1-2, from 2-3, and maybe from 3-4 at 7000~~7200 RPM, I want to keep the synchros and don't mind a slightly slower shift, but I'm not sure if these Richmond trannys like the RPM to shift. My goals to achieve this would include "perfect" bellhousing alignment and clutch adjustment. And, evidently, not using a synthetic fluid. As I just posted, you can slick shift the Richmond just like a Chrysler box. They don’t like to shift at higher RPM’s due to clutch disc weight and too many teeth on the gears, sliders and syncros. So slick shift it like a Chrysler box and do the 2,3 and 4 syncros too. Then put it back together like it’s stock and drive it. Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: madscientist] #2956315 08/22/21 01:36 PM 08/22/21 01:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2016 Posts: 906 Washington H hemienvy OP super stock
hemienvy OP super stock H Joined: Jun 2016 Posts: 906 Washington	MadScientist, I am very grateful for your input on this thread ! I can see that cutting off every other engagement tooth on the slider mechanism would double the time window for the shift engagement. It seems it would not affect the synchro - gear cone holding ability. Then once the slider is on the gear, you are IN GEAR. If the slight back angle is present on the teeth then it will stay IN GEAR, even on decel. Is there a strength or longevity decrease on the engagement mechanism ? Even f you disengage the clutch properly during the shift, you now have half the tooth area to perform the engagement. There is always some "slamming" involved in this process. Too bad they don't make slider components with, say, 1.5 times the tooth spacing but 1.5 times bigger teeth.

Re: Richmond 5-spd vs 6-spd ROD [Re: hemienvy] #2956395 08/22/21 06:27 PM 08/22/21 06:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,552 Rittman Ohio fourgearsavoy I Live Here
fourgearsavoy I Live Here Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,552 Rittman Ohio	Too bad they don't make slider components with, say, 1.5 times the tooth spacing but 1.5 times bigger teeth. They do when you install Liberty's Pro-shifted gears and sliders, but if I were doing that I would just have the gears Face-plated instead because they last a lot longer and shift like lightning Gus 64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60

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