Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help.
[Re: NITROUSN]
#2955484
08/19/21 09:06 PM
08/19/21 09:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,377 Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,377
Omaha Ne
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My opinion avoid a pusher at all costs. Puller is the most efficient and the way to go, 100%. When are you having issues, and what is your current setup ?
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Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help.
[Re: TJP]
#2955518
08/19/21 11:01 PM
08/19/21 11:01 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 732 Michigan
BlueRacer69
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 732
Michigan
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My opinion avoid a pusher at all costs. Puller is the most efficient and the way to go, 100%.,-cord When are you having issues, and what is your current setup ? Car's cooling system is mostly factory stock and I'd like to keep it looking that way. I wanted to hide a pusher fan behind the grill and in front of the rad sorta of out of sight. The cooling system is all stock for a 1969 big block Dart, except I did have the factory radiator re-corded to a 3 row with 1/2 inch tubes (did not help much). Car still runs warmer then I'd like at slow speeds or at red lights. On a 80 degree day if you keep the car moving @ 45+mph its not to bad. It will run 195 to 200 degrees with a 160 degree Napa Super Stat. At lower speeds 210 to 220 degrees. I have had the car vapor lock on me a couple of times in the past and stall out, so I don't drive it much in hot weather. Also I 've put a phenolic spacer under the carb and started running Ethanol free gas, but it has not helped.
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Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help.
[Re: BlueRacer69]
#2955544
08/20/21 12:35 AM
08/20/21 12:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
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My opinion avoid a pusher at all costs. Puller is the most efficient and the way to go, 100%.,-cord When are you having issues, and what is your current setup ? Car's cooling system is mostly factory stock and I'd like to keep it looking that way. I wanted to hide a pusher fan behind the grill and in front of the rad sorta of out of sight. The cooling system is all stock for a 1969 big block Dart, except I did have the factory radiator re-corded to a 3 row with 1/2 inch tubes (did not help much). Car still runs warmer then I'd like at slow speeds or at red lights. On a 80 degree day if you keep the car moving @ 45+mph its not to bad. It will run 195 to 200 degrees with a 160 degree Napa Super Stat. At lower speeds 210 to 220 degrees. I have had the car vapor lock on me a couple of times in the past and stall out, so I don't drive it much in hot weather. Also I 've put a phenolic spacer under the carb and started running Ethanol free gas, but it has not helped. That high density core radiator should have helped. Tell us more about the engine combo. Stock AVS carb? Rebuilt with what compression, cam, etc? What fan do you have on it? What viscous clutch?
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Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help.
[Re: autoxcuda]
#2955560
08/20/21 06:15 AM
08/20/21 06:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 991 rust belt
Moparite
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 991
rust belt
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Car still runs warmer then I'd like at slow speeds or at red lights. Is the fan clutch working correctly? Shroud installed?
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Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help.
[Re: Moparite]
#2955566
08/20/21 06:56 AM
08/20/21 06:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,516 Las Vegas, NV
6bblgt
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,516
Las Vegas, NV
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1969 big block Darts use a 7-blade 18" diameter 1-1/2" pitched fixed fan - #2863213replace it with the 7-blade 18" diameter 2" pitched fixed fan - #2863224 (same as used on a Superbird to increase air flow) replace your 160 thermostat with a 180 unit - once you reach 160 your thermostat is wide open and never slows the flow of water thru the radiator where it would have a chance to cool do you have a shroud - do you use antifreeze - do you use water wetter? yes, yes, yes where is your timing?
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Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help.
[Re: 6bblgt]
#2955587
08/20/21 08:36 AM
08/20/21 08:36 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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1969 big block Darts use a 7-blade 18" diameter 1-1/2" pitched fixed fan - #2863213replace it with the 7-blade 18" diameter 2" pitched fixed fan - #2863224 (same as used on a Superbird to increase air flow) replace your 160 thermostat with a 180 unit - once you reach 160 your thermostat is wide open and never slows the flow of water thru the radiator where it would have a chance to cool do you have a shroud - do you use antifreeze - do you use water wetter? yes, yes, yes where is your timing? Changing to a 180 thermostat won’t do anything. The last thing you want to do is keep the coolant in the radiator longer. OP, what do you have for a water pump? Is the water pump turning faster than crank speed? It should be. A 22 inch core is pretty small to cool a big block. You would have been better off with two .75 cores than three .50 cores.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help.
[Re: BlueRacer69]
#2955603
08/20/21 09:47 AM
08/20/21 09:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,096 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,096
Benton, IL.
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My opinion avoid a pusher at all costs. Puller is the most efficient and the way to go, 100%.,-cord When are you having issues, and what is your current setup ? Car's cooling system is mostly factory stock and I'd like to keep it looking that way. I wanted to hide a pusher fan behind the grill and in front of the rad sorta of out of sight. The cooling system is all stock for a 1969 big block Dart, except I did have the factory radiator re-corded to a 3 row with 1/2 inch tubes (did not help much). Car still runs warmer then I'd like at slow speeds or at red lights. On a 80 degree day if you keep the car moving @ 45+mph its not to bad. It will run 195 to 200 degrees with a 160 degree Napa Super Stat. At lower speeds 210 to 220 degrees. I have had the car vapor lock on me a couple of times in the past and stall out, so I don't drive it much in hot weather. Also I 've put a phenolic spacer under the carb and started running Ethanol free gas, but it has not helped. This old adage may well apply here; over temp at slow vehicle speed is typically an air flow problem, while over temp problems at road speed are typically a water flow problem. If the current thermostat is working properly, another one won't fix your problem. Especially since you know that as vehicle speed increases, the problem improves. Sure sounds like more air through the radiator helps the problem to me. But it wouldn't hurt to pull the thermostat and see if that has any impact on the temp. It certainly won't make it any worse. The old wife's tale of water going through the radiator too fast is crap. Most thermostats have a very small opening for the water to pass through. And while you have it out, look down into the housing and see how large the bypass hole is. That allows heated block water right back into the cooler water entering the engine. That really matters. Motor homes and industrial engines used to have a block off attached to the bottom of the thermostat that blocked that hole when the thermostat opened up. Sizing that hole down can have a noticeable impact on engine temp. I like the previous recommendation of using a deeper bladed OE fan. That will move more air. Do you run a clutch fan? If so, is it fairly new. I replace the one on my Cuda every couple of years. They do loosen up with use. Shroud? How's your fan depth into the shroud? If you can, you might consider posting a picture of your radiator/fan. Something may pop out to others that you might have missed. And I agree that a pusher fan won't help. In fact, one could make matters worse by blocking some incoming air.
Master, again and still
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Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help.
[Re: NITROUSN]
#2955641
08/20/21 12:08 PM
08/20/21 12:08 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,514 Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,514
Tulsa, Oklahoma
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My opinion avoid a pusher at all costs. Puller is the most efficient and the way to go, While I am sure a puller is more efficient, because of space limitations I have a pusher on my 69 Barracuda race car and it works fine. If I was the OP I would not be scared to try one.
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Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help.
[Re: MarkZ]
#2955735
08/20/21 03:58 PM
08/20/21 03:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,892 Oregon
hooziewhatsit
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,892
Oregon
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Mine ran hot until I gave it a lot more timing at idle, which of course meant I had to limit the total. I ended up plugging the vac advance into manifold vacuum, and tuning from there. 10° initial doesn't sound like enough...
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help.
[Re: hooziewhatsit]
#2955747
08/20/21 04:35 PM
08/20/21 04:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,421 Michigan
MarkZ
Worthy
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Worthy
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,421
Michigan
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Mine ran hot until I gave it a lot more timing at idle, which of course meant I had to limit the total. I ended up plugging the vac advance into manifold vacuum, and tuning from there. 10° initial doesn't sound like enough... The OP stated it ran cool enough at idle, but would creep up to 220 at cruise. That's what got me thinking if he was using vacuum advance or not.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
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Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help.
[Re: MarkZ]
#2955789
08/20/21 07:59 PM
08/20/21 07:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,096 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,096
Benton, IL.
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Mine ran hot until I gave it a lot more timing at idle, which of course meant I had to limit the total. I ended up plugging the vac advance into manifold vacuum, and tuning from there. 10° initial doesn't sound like enough... The OP stated it ran cool enough at idle, but would creep up to 220 at cruise. That's what got me thinking if he was using vacuum advance or not. I don't think that is what the OP said; "Car still runs warmer then I'd like at slow speeds or at red lights. On a 80 degree day if you keep the car moving @ 45+mph its not to bad. It will run 195 to 200 degrees with a 160 degree Napa Super Stat. At lower speeds 210 to 220 degrees."
Master, again and still
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Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help.
[Re: BlueRacer69]
#2955821
08/20/21 09:35 PM
08/20/21 09:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,377 Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,377
Omaha Ne
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So it sounds like a electric pusher fan is a bad idea. Anyways I think the 69's Darts stock electrical system would not handle it. In short, I've already tried pretty much everything thats been mention above so far. I've upgraded the radiator to a 3 row with 1/2 tubes. Upgraded the fixed 18 inch fan from the stock 213 to a 224 with more pitch to pull more air. Yes I have a fan shroud attached. The fan blades are about halfway into the shroud and about 2 inchs from the rear of the rad. I have a Flow Kooler water pump, with a bottle of Water Wetter added. I have a 160 degree Napa super stat. I have the timing advanced to 10 degrees BTC. Engine's compression ratio is between 9.5 and 10.0. Bored 40 over. Motor has a mild hyd Comp Cam, 230 intake 236 exhaust @.50 The lift is .488 .491 The motor also has a Edelbrock Performer intake and a Edelbrock 800 CFM carb with a heat spacer between the two. I even started running Ethanol free gas, but nothing seems to help much. I'm at my wits end trying to get this car to run cooler. I'd like to see it run under 195 degrees in the heat. Is that to much to ask? Please give me your advice & your thinking. Thanks. Your numbers make me first question the accuracy of the gauge and or the efficiency of the radiator Be aware that all radiator cores are not created equal and that can lead to one pulling their hair out. The factory produced many big block cars with 22" radiators and they cooled just fine. Likely due to better thermal efficiency of the cores back then. 50+ years later we have what are SUPPOSED to be the equivalent but is far from it thanks to the bean counters and manufacturers trying to make it better, cheaper, and faster. THOSE three together BTW are not possible. STEP 1. The first thing I would strongly recommend is measuring the temp with an 1/8" sheathed thermocouple and a digital meter. They can be obtained fairly inexpensively on ebay of amazom. A lot of the DVMs have jacks for thermocouples. Put the thermocouple as close as possible to the thermostat. You can get extension leads and place the meter in the car while driving around. Compare the T/C readings to you existing gauge. NOTE: Do be aware there are different types of T/C's and you have to get the correct type for the meter and extensions or you readings will be skewed. Why a T/C? because they are extremely sensitive and ACCURATE. I have seen new "QUALITY" aftermarket gauges be off by as much as 50 degrees. The warmer it gets, the further out calibration they seem to go. Does not matter whether they are mechanical or electrical. The T/C does not lie Step 2. Drive the car around preferably with a passenger to record the readings. IF the T/C concurs with the gauge you have eliminated the gauge as a possible problem and can move forward with resolving the temp issue. Per your postings you have already thrown more $$ at the problem than the above suggestions would cost and have resolved nothing. I am not beating you up but rather trying to help. 30 years of R&D pushing the envelope on existing technology taught me, you have to first gather the data, then analyze it, categorize it and proceed from there. Throwing parts at an issue with out analyzing / diagnosing it is like going to the casino's A perfect example is in this post https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2953501/low-oil-pressure.html#Post2953501If you choose to do the above, report back and we can go from there.
Last edited by TJP; 08/21/21 11:21 AM.
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