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Electric fan recommendation. Please help. #2955472
08/19/21 08:12 PM
08/19/21 08:12 PM
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BlueRacer69 Offline OP
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Hi fellow members. Has anyone here ever put a Electric Pusher fan on a 69 big block Dart with a factory 22 inch radiator? I know very little about this subject. If so, what brand name and what size fan or fans did you use? Also is it hard to mount one up and how do you go about wiring it. The car only has its stock electrical system. I hear some of these fans can take alot of juice to run. Thanks guys.

Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help. [Re: BlueRacer69] #2955480
08/19/21 08:50 PM
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My opinion avoid a pusher at all costs. Puller is the most efficient and the way to go,

Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help. [Re: NITROUSN] #2955484
08/19/21 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by NITROUSN
My opinion avoid a pusher at all costs. Puller is the most efficient and the way to go,

iagree 100%.

When are you having issues, and what is your current setup ?

Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help. [Re: TJP] #2955518
08/19/21 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TJP
Originally Posted by NITROUSN
My opinion avoid a pusher at all costs. Puller is the most efficient and the way to go,

iagree 100%.,-cord
When are you having issues, and what is your current setup ?
Car's cooling system is mostly factory stock and I'd like to keep it looking that way. I wanted to hide a pusher fan behind the grill and in front of the rad sorta of out of sight. The cooling system is all stock for a 1969 big block Dart, except I did have the factory radiator re-corded to a 3 row with 1/2 inch tubes (did not help much). Car still runs warmer then I'd like at slow speeds or at red lights. On a 80 degree day if you keep the car moving @ 45+mph its not to bad. It will run 195 to 200 degrees with a 160 degree Napa Super Stat. At lower speeds 210 to 220 degrees. I have had the car vapor lock on me a couple of times in the past and stall out, so I don't drive it much in hot weather. Also I 've put a phenolic spacer under the carb and started running Ethanol free gas, but it has not helped.

Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help. [Re: BlueRacer69] #2955544
08/20/21 12:35 AM
08/20/21 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueRacer69
Originally Posted by TJP
Originally Posted by NITROUSN
My opinion avoid a pusher at all costs. Puller is the most efficient and the way to go,

iagree 100%.,-cord
When are you having issues, and what is your current setup ?
Car's cooling system is mostly factory stock and I'd like to keep it looking that way. I wanted to hide a pusher fan behind the grill and in front of the rad sorta of out of sight. The cooling system is all stock for a 1969 big block Dart, except I did have the factory radiator re-corded to a 3 row with 1/2 inch tubes (did not help much). Car still runs warmer then I'd like at slow speeds or at red lights. On a 80 degree day if you keep the car moving @ 45+mph its not to bad. It will run 195 to 200 degrees with a 160 degree Napa Super Stat. At lower speeds 210 to 220 degrees. I have had the car vapor lock on me a couple of times in the past and stall out, so I don't drive it much in hot weather. Also I 've put a phenolic spacer under the carb and started running Ethanol free gas, but it has not helped.


That high density core radiator should have helped.

Tell us more about the engine combo.

Stock AVS carb?
Rebuilt with what compression, cam, etc?
What fan do you have on it?
What viscous clutch?

Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help. [Re: autoxcuda] #2955560
08/20/21 06:15 AM
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Car still runs warmer then I'd like at slow speeds or at red lights.

Is the fan clutch working correctly? Shroud installed?

Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help. [Re: Moparite] #2955565
08/20/21 06:47 AM
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Any good fan you use and by good I mean one that will actually cool, will draw more than your stock charging system can handle.

Most aftermarket fans are crap. You'd be well ahead to look at OEM fan setups and adapt one to work, with appropriate charging system upgrades.

As far as trying to keep it sort of stock looking, I'd give that up if you are going electric.

Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help. [Re: Moparite] #2955566
08/20/21 06:56 AM
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1969 big block Darts use a 7-blade 18" diameter 1-1/2" pitched fixed fan - #2863213
replace it with the 7-blade 18" diameter 2" pitched fixed fan - #2863224 (same as used on a Superbird to increase air flow)

replace your 160 thermostat with a 180 unit - once you reach 160 your thermostat is wide open and never slows the flow of water thru the radiator where it would have a chance to cool

do you have a shroud - do you use antifreeze - do you use water wetter? luck yes, yes, yes

where is your timing?

Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help. [Re: Sniper] #2955569
08/20/21 07:18 AM
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I have a 426 Hemi in a 68 Dart with a 26" radiator and dual puller fans from SPAL. They make some very thin fans that pull large CFM of air. They are easy to install and hook up. Do not buy any other brand but SPAL, I am talking from experience with other brands. PM me if you like with a phone number. I would be glad to help you out.

Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help. [Re: 6bblgt] #2955587
08/20/21 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by 6bblgt
1969 big block Darts use a 7-blade 18" diameter 1-1/2" pitched fixed fan - #2863213
replace it with the 7-blade 18" diameter 2" pitched fixed fan - #2863224 (same as used on a Superbird to increase air flow)

replace your 160 thermostat with a 180 unit - once you reach 160 your thermostat is wide open and never slows the flow of water thru the radiator where it would have a chance to cool

do you have a shroud - do you use antifreeze - do you use water wetter? luck yes, yes, yes

where is your timing?


Changing to a 180 thermostat won’t do anything. The last thing you want to do is keep the coolant in the radiator longer. OP, what do you have for a water pump? Is the water pump turning faster than crank speed? It should be. A 22 inch core is pretty small to cool a big block. You would have been better off with two .75 cores than three .50 cores.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help. [Re: BlueRacer69] #2955596
08/20/21 09:24 AM
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I'd recommend Spal fans if going aftermarket. Made a huge difference when I switched from two chinese fans to two Spal of the same size. Night and day difference. Probably moved 2-3 times more airflow. Now my 2nd fan doesn't even come on alot of the time.

Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help. [Re: BlueRacer69] #2955603
08/20/21 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueRacer69
Originally Posted by TJP
Originally Posted by NITROUSN
My opinion avoid a pusher at all costs. Puller is the most efficient and the way to go,

iagree 100%.,-cord
When are you having issues, and what is your current setup ?
Car's cooling system is mostly factory stock and I'd like to keep it looking that way. I wanted to hide a pusher fan behind the grill and in front of the rad sorta of out of sight. The cooling system is all stock for a 1969 big block Dart, except I did have the factory radiator re-corded to a 3 row with 1/2 inch tubes (did not help much). Car still runs warmer then I'd like at slow speeds or at red lights. On a 80 degree day if you keep the car moving @ 45+mph its not to bad. It will run 195 to 200 degrees with a 160 degree Napa Super Stat. At lower speeds 210 to 220 degrees. I have had the car vapor lock on me a couple of times in the past and stall out, so I don't drive it much in hot weather. Also I 've put a phenolic spacer under the carb and started running Ethanol free gas, but it has not helped.


This old adage may well apply here; over temp at slow vehicle speed is typically an air flow problem, while over temp problems at road speed are typically a water flow problem.

If the current thermostat is working properly, another one won't fix your problem. Especially since you know that as vehicle speed increases, the problem improves. Sure sounds like more air through the radiator helps the problem to me. But it wouldn't hurt to pull the thermostat and see if that has any impact on the temp. It certainly won't make it any worse. The old wife's tale of water going through the radiator too fast is crap. Most thermostats have a very small opening for the water to pass through. And while you have it out, look down into the housing and see how large the bypass hole is. That allows heated block water right back into the cooler water entering the engine. That really matters. Motor homes and industrial engines used to have a block off attached to the bottom of the thermostat that blocked that hole when the thermostat opened up. Sizing that hole down can have a noticeable impact on engine temp.

I like the previous recommendation of using a deeper bladed OE fan. That will move more air. Do you run a clutch fan? If so, is it fairly new. I replace the one on my Cuda every couple of years. They do loosen up with use. Shroud? How's your fan depth into the shroud?

If you can, you might consider posting a picture of your radiator/fan. Something may pop out to others that you might have missed.

And I agree that a pusher fan won't help. In fact, one could make matters worse by blocking some incoming air.

twocents


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Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help. [Re: DaveRS23] #2955622
08/20/21 10:55 AM
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Vacuum advance?


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Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help. [Re: NITROUSN] #2955641
08/20/21 12:08 PM
08/20/21 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by NITROUSN
My opinion avoid a pusher at all costs. Puller is the most efficient and the way to go,

While I am sure a puller is more efficient, because of space limitations I have a pusher on my 69 Barracuda race car and it works fine.

If I was the OP I would not be scared to try one.

Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help. [Re: MarkZ] #2955689
08/20/21 02:06 PM
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So it sounds like a electric pusher fan is a bad idea. Anyways I think the 69's Darts stock electrical system would not handle it. In short, I've already tried pretty much everything thats been mention above so far. I've upgraded the radiator to a 3 row with 1/2 tubes. Upgraded the fixed 18 inch fan from the stock 213 to a 224 with more pitch to pull more air. Yes I have a fan shroud attached. The fan blades are about halfway into the shroud and about 2 inchs from the rear of the rad. I have a Flow Kooler water pump, with a bottle of Water Wetter added. I have a 160 degree Napa super stat. I have the timing advanced to 10 degrees BTC. Engine's compression ratio is between 9.5 and 10.0. Bored 40 over. Motor has a mild hyd Comp Cam, 230 intake 236 exhaust @.50 The lift is .488 .491 The motor also has a Edelbrock Performer intake and a Edelbrock 800 CFM carb with a heat spacer between the two. I even started running Ethanol free gas, but nothing seems to help much. I'm at my wits end trying to get this car to run cooler. I'd like to see it run under 195 degrees in the heat. Is that to much to ask? Please give me your advice & your thinking. Thanks.

Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help. [Re: MarkZ] #2955735
08/20/21 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkZ
Vacuum advance?


Mine ran hot until I gave it a lot more timing at idle, which of course meant I had to limit the total.

I ended up plugging the vac advance into manifold vacuum, and tuning from there.

10° initial doesn't sound like enough... twocents


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Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help. [Re: hooziewhatsit] #2955747
08/20/21 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by hooziewhatsit
Originally Posted by MarkZ
Vacuum advance?


Mine ran hot until I gave it a lot more timing at idle, which of course meant I had to limit the total.

I ended up plugging the vac advance into manifold vacuum, and tuning from there.

10° initial doesn't sound like enough... twocents


The OP stated it ran cool enough at idle, but would creep up to 220 at cruise. That's what got me thinking if he was using vacuum advance or not.


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Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help. [Re: MarkZ] #2955789
08/20/21 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkZ
Originally Posted by hooziewhatsit
Originally Posted by MarkZ
Vacuum advance?


Mine ran hot until I gave it a lot more timing at idle, which of course meant I had to limit the total.

I ended up plugging the vac advance into manifold vacuum, and tuning from there.

10° initial doesn't sound like enough... twocents


The OP stated it ran cool enough at idle, but would creep up to 220 at cruise. That's what got me thinking if he was using vacuum advance or not.


I don't think that is what the OP said; "Car still runs warmer then I'd like at slow speeds or at red lights. On a 80 degree day if you keep the car moving @ 45+mph its not to bad. It will run 195 to 200 degrees with a 160 degree Napa Super Stat. At lower speeds 210 to 220 degrees."


KOS
Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help. [Re: BlueRacer69] #2955821
08/20/21 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueRacer69
So it sounds like a electric pusher fan is a bad idea. Anyways I think the 69's Darts stock electrical system would not handle it. In short, I've already tried pretty much everything thats been mention above so far. I've upgraded the radiator to a 3 row with 1/2 tubes. Upgraded the fixed 18 inch fan from the stock 213 to a 224 with more pitch to pull more air. Yes I have a fan shroud attached. The fan blades are about halfway into the shroud and about 2 inchs from the rear of the rad. I have a Flow Kooler water pump, with a bottle of Water Wetter added. I have a 160 degree Napa super stat. I have the timing advanced to 10 degrees BTC. Engine's compression ratio is between 9.5 and 10.0. Bored 40 over. Motor has a mild hyd Comp Cam, 230 intake 236 exhaust @.50 The lift is .488 .491 The motor also has a Edelbrock Performer intake and a Edelbrock 800 CFM carb with a heat spacer between the two. I even started running Ethanol free gas, but nothing seems to help much. I'm at my wits end trying to get this car to run cooler. I'd like to see it run under 195 degrees in the heat. Is that to much to ask? Please give me your advice & your thinking. Thanks.


Your numbers make me first question the accuracy of the gauge and or the efficiency of the radiator
Be aware that all radiator cores are not created equal and that can lead to one pulling their hair out. The factory produced many big block cars with 22" radiators and they cooled just fine. Likely due to better thermal efficiency of the cores back then. 50+ years later we have what are SUPPOSED to be the equivalent but is far from it thanks to the bean counters and manufacturers trying to make it better, cheaper, and faster. THOSE three together BTW are not possible.

STEP 1. The first thing I would strongly recommend is measuring the temp with an 1/8" sheathed thermocouple and a digital meter.
They can be obtained fairly inexpensively on ebay of amazom. A lot of the DVMs have jacks for thermocouples.
Put the thermocouple as close as possible to the thermostat. You can get extension leads and place the meter in the car while driving around. Compare the T/C readings to you existing gauge. NOTE: Do be aware there are different types of T/C's and you have to get the correct type for the meter and extensions or you readings will be skewed.
Why a T/C? because they are extremely sensitive and ACCURATE. I have seen new "QUALITY" aftermarket gauges be off by as much as 50 degrees. The warmer it gets, the further out calibration they seem to go. Does not matter whether they are mechanical or electrical. The T/C does not lie wink
Step 2. Drive the car around preferably with a passenger to record the readings.
IF the T/C concurs with the gauge you have eliminated the gauge as a possible problem and can move forward with resolving the temp issue.
Per your postings you have already thrown more $$ at the problem than the above suggestions would cost and have resolved nothing. I am not beating you up but rather trying to help. 30 years of R&D pushing the envelope on existing technology taught me, you have to first gather the data, then analyze it, categorize it and proceed from there.
Throwing parts at an issue with out analyzing / diagnosing it is like going to the casino's wink
A perfect example is in this post

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2953501/low-oil-pressure.html#Post2953501

If you choose to do the above, report back and we can go from there. twocents beer

Last edited by TJP; 08/21/21 11:21 AM.
Re: Electric fan recommendation. Please help. [Re: TJP] #2955886
08/21/21 05:10 AM
08/21/21 05:10 AM
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Sounds like some ignition tuning is in order.
Install vacuumadvance at intake manifold to achieve at least some 20-24 degrees of advance at idle.
This will most likely solve the hot running temps at lower speeds.
No engine runs 'happy' with just 10 adv. at idle.

Base timing
Mechanical adv
Vacuum advance

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