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Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: metallicareload] #2934708
06/18/21 10:10 PM
06/18/21 10:10 PM
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USA
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hudsonhornet7x Offline
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I just saw this video.

I have two takeaways:

1: At least we are looking at Chrysler engines instead of Chevies

2: This confirms what I have heard over many years of shop talk: the hemi turns on when other engine designs turn off. Not really surprising, but who builds stock displacement engines anymore? Make both 500" strokers, current heads, cams to compliment each type of engine and let them go. I would be very interested to see those results.


I don't have cable or satellite tv so the 5 bucks a month I spend on Motor Trend is worth it to me. It is far from perfect but I do enjoy many of the shows that are featured. Roadkill Garage is worth the price of admission on it's own.

Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: mgoblue9798] #2934709
06/18/21 10:20 PM
06/18/21 10:20 PM
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St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar Offline
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
Actually a 426 max wedge v/s hemi would be an interesting shootout. I'd like to see a small block vs gen 3 hemi shootout - maybe what can be built for 5k. Small block stroker vs 6.4 would be interesting as well.

5 K don't buy much these days.
I just finished a 408 stroker and with machining , I am well over that.
I also have a 405 inch R-3 / W-9 and I have well over that in the heads.

Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: hudsonhornet7x] #2934720
06/18/21 10:39 PM
06/18/21 10:39 PM
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Posts: 712
Lake Villa Il
INTMD8 Offline
super stock
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Lake Villa Il
Originally Posted by hudsonhornet7x
but who builds stock displacement engines anymore?


I just did grin


69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: INTMD8] #2934724
06/18/21 10:50 PM
06/18/21 10:50 PM
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USA
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hudsonhornet7x Offline
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Originally Posted by INTMD8
Originally Posted by hudsonhornet7x
but who builds stock displacement engines anymore?


I just did grin


Fair enough lol. What did you build?

Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: INTMD8] #2934726
06/18/21 10:53 PM
06/18/21 10:53 PM
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Sobieski Wi
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bee1971 Offline
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The 1971 440 Six Pack is going back in his 1971 Charger R/T , his first car

The Mopar Performance 426 Hemi is going in a AMC Gremlin on a future episode of roadkill


1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: tubtar] #2934737
06/18/21 11:44 PM
06/18/21 11:44 PM
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Posts: 1,061
Atlanta, GA
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mgoblue9798 Offline
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Originally Posted by tubtar
Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
Actually a 426 max wedge v/s hemi would be an interesting shootout. I'd like to see a small block vs gen 3 hemi shootout - maybe what can be built for 5k. Small block stroker vs 6.4 would be interesting as well.

5 K don't buy much these days.
I just finished a 408 stroker and with machining , I am well over that.
I also have a 405 inch R-3 / W-9 and I have well over that in the heads.


I was thinking about a 5.9 with a set of pistons, cam, and heads, vs 5.7 with something similar as far as cam and compression goes. Regular guy street stuff, not racing engines.

Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: hudsonhornet7x] #2934738
06/19/21 12:00 AM
06/19/21 12:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 268
Anchorage, Alaska
metallicareload Offline
enthusiast
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Anchorage, Alaska
Originally Posted by hudsonhornet7x
I just saw this video.

I have two takeaways:

1: At least we are looking at Chrysler engines instead of Chevies


iagree

Originally Posted by hudsonhornet7x


...who builds stock displacement engines anymore?...


blush


440, 4-Speed, 3.54
1968, when Dinosaurs ruled the Earth
Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: metallicareload] #2934746
06/19/21 01:13 AM
06/19/21 01:13 AM
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Posts: 5,161
CT
GTX MATT Offline
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CT
I did not know that Stage V made a dual plane? Somehow I suspect that a stock intake would have made more torque.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-0310-hemi-426-crate-engine-dyno-test/

This is an article from Dulcich on Westechs dyno from 20 years ago. The otherwise stock 465 HP crate motor he used made WAY more low end torque with more cam with the crate motor intake manifold. How much do you want to bet its actually the same crate engine?

Last edited by GTX MATT; 06/19/21 01:14 AM.

Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: polyspheric] #2934788
06/19/21 10:04 AM
06/19/21 10:04 AM
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Posts: 4,765
Holland MI Ottawa
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2boltmain Offline
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Wedge motor was a successful transition of a passenger car engine design adapted to racing. Hemi was a successful transition of a race car engine design adapted to passenger car use. Many OEM heads can support 500hp. The iron OEM hemi head shines when tasked to make far FAR beyond that level. Hemi is cool and legendary but If I could afford one run Id let those big ole heads shine with big cubes and high RPM.


Keep old mopars alive.
Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: GTX MATT] #2934789
06/19/21 10:06 AM
06/19/21 10:06 AM
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central texas
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krautrock Offline
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central texas
what were the cams in the motors for the dyno test comparison?

Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: Cab_Burge] #2934800
06/19/21 10:54 AM
06/19/21 10:54 AM
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Posts: 3,509
Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda Offline
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Tulsa, Oklahoma
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by MoonshineMattK
Anyone watch it? Interesting results. Has me wondering if the cams should have shared the same lift but otherwise been customized to suite each engine best.

How about a link to it so we can watch it help shruggy
They are having a Father's Day sale, $36 a year. Well worth it.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/motortrend-app-fathers-day-gifts/

Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: krautrock] #2934829
06/19/21 12:26 PM
06/19/21 12:26 PM
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Wichita
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GY3 Offline
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Originally Posted by krautrock
what were the cams in the motors for the dyno test comparison?


Hydraulic rollers. Duration was 236° @ .050 intake, 241 @ .050 exhaust. Lift was .549 intake, .541 exhaust with 108° lobe separation.

Last edited by GY3; 06/19/21 12:39 PM.

'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: cudaman1969] #2934831
06/19/21 12:57 PM
06/19/21 12:57 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Originally Posted by cudaman1969
You can build a 440 to have more power than a Hemi, then try to sell either. Buyers are standing in line to pay big bucks for the Hemi and you have to give away the wedge, facts of life folks.
One other thing, I haven’t seen any 68 440 Darts or Cudas in Super Stock trim run as fast as the Hemi ones yet.

let se, a single four barrel with stock smog heads versus two four barrels on a race motor, I wonder why the hemi does better in those cars whistling shruggy
for those that don't know about the stock hemiroid valve train take a real hard look at them, they SUCK down twocents


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: 340Cuda] #2934832
06/19/21 12:58 PM
06/19/21 12:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 695
Southern Alberta
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Southern Alberta
Originally Posted by 340Cuda
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by MoonshineMattK
Anyone watch it? Interesting results. Has me wondering if the cams should have shared the same lift but otherwise been customized to suite each engine best.

How about a link to it so we can watch it help shruggy
They are having a Father's Day sale, $36 a year. Well worth it.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/motortrend-app-fathers-day-gifts/



Deal only available in the US. Bummer.

Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: Cab_Burge] #2934872
06/19/21 02:50 PM
06/19/21 02:50 PM
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fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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fredericksburg,va
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by cudaman1969
You can build a 440 to have more power than a Hemi, then try to sell either. Buyers are standing in line to pay big bucks for the Hemi and you have to give away the wedge, facts of life folks.
One other thing, I haven’t seen any 68 440 Darts or Cudas in Super Stock trim run as fast as the Hemi ones yet.

let se, a single four barrel with stock smog heads versus two four barrels on a race motor, I wonder why the hemi does better in those cars whistling shruggy
for those that don't know about the stock hemiroid valve train take a real hard look at them, they SUCK down twocents

Exactly what I mean, no smog motor headed 440 even with the 6 Pac will run like a Hemi unless you restrict the Hemi (with hdydrolic cam) to run in the same rpm range. Build the 440 just like the race Hemi using the 906 head with a sheet metal intake (same mods as the S/S) no way you’re getting 8-900 HP out of that 440. First off those 906s will choke off at 6800 or less. Below the head, the 440 and 426 are the same, the head and above separates the men from the boys. Once the aftermarket wedge heads start flowing in the Hemi range then and only then will the engines match up.

Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: Uberpube] #2934878
06/19/21 03:07 PM
06/19/21 03:07 PM
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Atlanta, GA
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mgoblue9798 Offline
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Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted by Uberpube
Originally Posted by 340Cuda
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by MoonshineMattK
Anyone watch it? Interesting results. Has me wondering if the cams should have shared the same lift but otherwise been customized to suite each engine best.

How about a link to it so we can watch it help shruggy
They are having a Father's Day sale, $36 a year. Well worth it.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/motortrend-app-fathers-day-gifts/



Deal only available in the US. Bummer.


If you get a VPN you can be a US customer as well.

Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: GY3] #2934891
06/19/21 04:02 PM
06/19/21 04:02 PM
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Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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Kalispell Mt.
Originally Posted by GY3
I just finished it and it was very interesting!

It's the same thing that had been said for years.

You have to spin the HEMI hard to get it to run. Not so much with the 440 as it makes tons more low end torque.

Here is a screenshot of the runs overlaid. Red is 440, black is Hemi.


Sorry I don't know any other way to say this but If you increase the TQ per cube on the 426 to the same TQ per cube X 440 it is only down about 20lbs to the 440. The HP would also go up a little from the bigger bore unshrouding the valves more and the CID increase. Another way to look at it is you can always multiply TQ with gears but you can not multiply HP, what the engine makes is what it makes. In the same car with either cubic inch equal or gearing adjusted for the lower CID the hemi will win.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: 2boltmain] #2934895
06/19/21 04:22 PM
06/19/21 04:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
polyspheric Offline
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New York
In Chrysler, the hemi is the older engine by 7 years (1951 vs 1958), and the B/RB wedge is not a descendant of any hemi..
In general, the wedge (pushrods and rocker arms, closed chamber with quench, parallel valves tilted at an angle to the bore axis) only came into general use in 1949 (Cadillac and Olds, and still used today in LSX), but the Harley-Davidson hemi engines date to 1926 and every English bike mfg. had a hemi engine before WW2.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: HotRodDave] #2934942
06/19/21 10:14 PM
06/19/21 10:14 PM
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Posts: 43,126
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
I've seen and built NHRA legal "stock" M.W. motors that will smoke a NHRA "stock" street Hemi motor work devil
The ported 440-1 and a good set of B1 originals head will do that with ease on a similar prep wedge motor up After all it comes down to the basics, how much air and fuel into the motor determines how much HP both motors will make shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Engine Masters: 6pack vs HEMI [Re: Cab_Burge] #2934945
06/19/21 10:42 PM
06/19/21 10:42 PM
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Posts: 15,118
85086
moparpollack Offline
Lil Herman
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85086
If you insure through Hagerty they give you motor trend for free.

MT jumped the shark years ago haven't watched any new content in 3 years.


56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
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