First start on the dyno
#2909816
04/13/21 02:56 PM
04/13/21 02:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067 Irving, TX
feets
OP
Senior Management
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OP
Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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I've got the bottom end of my 541 together and the heads are due to arrive this week. The top end should fall together rather quickly. Once it's all buttoned up the plan is to break it in on the dyno. I'd much rather deal with any issues outside the car since stabbing the engine in the Imperial is far more difficult than my other cars.
This build has a mild hydraulic roller (235/241) and is destined to get EFI. I plan on discussing the dyno needs with the machine operator when I set up the appointment.
Should we do a cam break in type of run to heat cycle the springs? If so, would that be hard on the ceramic TTI headers? My collector extensions have O2 bungs. I planned on running a carb and intake to make the dyno time easier. I'm not concerned about power changes with the later EFI installation. I'm open to using the dyno's carb if that's what they prefer.
Other than having the motor ready to fire and not splatter oil or scatter parts what do I need to consider?
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: First start on the dyno
[Re: JACK1440]
#2909828
04/13/21 03:50 PM
04/13/21 03:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,022 MN
JERICOGTX
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,022
MN
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Always do the run in with a old junk set of headers. My machinist won't even use the customers headers on the dyno until the engine has had the cam broke in, of if it's a roller cam until they have a made a few pulls.
69 GTX
68 Road Runner
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Re: First start on the dyno
[Re: feets]
#2909862
04/13/21 05:47 PM
04/13/21 05:47 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 714 Central TEXAS!!!!
sr4440
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 714
Central TEXAS!!!!
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I have done it both ways, but if i were you i would use the dyno headers with the EFI until after the break in and the tune is close, then switch to your own headers. If the dyno is setup for EFI, I think it's easier then doing a carb. Joe
Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.
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Re: First start on the dyno
[Re: sr4440]
#2909904
04/13/21 08:40 PM
04/13/21 08:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,477 On the run…
BloFish
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,477
On the run…
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I used the dyno shops headers, as mine were just recoated. I figured better safe than sorry.
It really doesn't matter whether you win or lose… as long as you look good doing it!
‘65 A100 ‘69 ‘Cuda ‘73 Vega GT ‘06 Mega Cab ‘14 Mercedes SLK
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Re: First start on the dyno
[Re: 340Cuda]
#2910215
04/14/21 06:37 PM
04/14/21 06:37 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,075 Michigan
A727Tflite
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,075
Michigan
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Slightly off topic but Total Seal discourages running new engines, with new rings, without a load. Actually it’s not, being a roller it doesn’t need cam break in. As for heat cycle for the valve springs, never ever had issues without doing so. Rings generally need load to break in. Never heard of any exceptions to that.
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Re: First start on the dyno
[Re: hemienvy]
#2910257
04/14/21 08:52 PM
04/14/21 08:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,022 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,022
Tulsa OK
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If you have a flat tappet cam and new rings/hone job, basically a new motor, it would seem that ring break-in has different requirements than cam break-in.
So what would actually be the best method for initial running of a new motor ? On a dyno under a load would be ideal for the engine, but if its not a max performance deal you just do what you can. The dyno can at least do the cam break in under a load?
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: First start on the dyno
[Re: Bad340fish]
#2910283
04/14/21 10:10 PM
04/14/21 10:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067 Irving, TX
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OP
Senior Management
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OP
Senior Management
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Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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In this situation I'm interested in knowing what kind of numbers it puts out. If it'll tease 650 lb/ft and tickle 570 I'd giggle like a school girl. However, seeing that this is a cruiser instead of a competition engine the numbers aren't critical.
This engine has been another one of my science experiments and I'm really interested in seeing what it does.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: First start on the dyno
[Re: hemienvy]
#2910285
04/14/21 10:11 PM
04/14/21 10:11 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 714 Central TEXAS!!!!
sr4440
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 714
Central TEXAS!!!!
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If you have a flat tappet cam and new rings/hone job, basically a new motor, it would seem that ring break-in has different requirements than cam break-in.
So what would actually be the best method for initial running of a new motor ? I can tell you what we do and why, the rings need both load and a high vacuum, load to seat against the wall and achieve oil control and the vacuum is to rotate the ring on the piston. A flat tappet camshaft needs oil, lots of oil and needs to spin in the lifter bore. If you show up with a new engine and a flat tappet camshaft with duel spring the inner spring will be removed. After spinning the oil pump/engine to make sure the engine has oil pressure, we start it and quickly get the timing close (usually less then a min) then bring the engine to 2000 rpm and apply a load of around 25-30 HP, then the engine is cycled up to 3000 rpm and back down to 2000 every 30 seconds with out changing throttle position. this causes a high load and then a high vacuum condition after 20 mins shut it down and put the springs back in it. Then begin to tune it. Joe
Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.
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Re: First start on the dyno
[Re: sr4440]
#2910291
04/14/21 10:33 PM
04/14/21 10:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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If you have a flat tappet cam and new rings/hone job, basically a new motor, it would seem that ring break-in has different requirements than cam break-in.
So what would actually be the best method for initial running of a new motor ? I can tell you what we do and why, the rings need both load and a high vacuum, load to seat against the wall and achieve oil control and the vacuum is to rotate the ring on the piston. A flat tappet camshaft needs oil, lots of oil and needs to spin in the lifter bore. If you show up with a new engine and a flat tappet camshaft with duel spring the inner spring will be removed. After spinning the oil pump/engine to make sure the engine has oil pressure, we start it and quickly get the timing close (usually less then a min) then bring the engine to 2000 rpm and apply a load of around 25-30 HP, then the engine is cycled up to 3000 rpm and back down to 2000 every 30 seconds with out changing throttle position. this causes a high load and then a high vacuum condition after 20 mins shut it down and put the springs back in it. Then begin to tune it. Joe First I’ve heard that vacuum makes the rings rotate. I know the angle of the crosshatch affects how fast or slow the rings spin, so I just figured the hone made them spin also. Interesting for sure.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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