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727 Trans Slow to Shift at WOT #2908157
04/08/21 08:06 PM
04/08/21 08:06 PM
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Getting ready for fun at the Local Drag Strip and I have a concern. Last time I had the car out, and many times before that, I would bang my B&M shifter from 1rst 2nd, then 2nd to third and there was always a slight 1/2 - 1 second second delay before going into the next gear. The trans doesn't slip and the shifts are strong and positive. I have my shift light set for 6000 RPMs but by the time the trans goes into the next gear, the RPM is about 6100. Linkage appears to be set up correctly. The trans was rebuilt about 10 years ago with a cheetah reverse manual vale body and aside from the late shifts, there are no other trans issues. Any ideas?


1970 Superbird 440 Six BBL, 4-Speed, Dana, FJ5
1969 Daytona Charger 440 4-Speed, Dana, EV2
1971 340 Challenger Conv. Flemington Speedway Pace Car, FC7
1970 340 Six Pack Callenger T/A 4-speed T8 Tan
1971 340 Challenger RT Formal Roof, EV2 w/ V2 Stripe & Orange Houndstooth
1969 Talladega Torino, 428CJ
1969 Gurney Special Cyclone Spoiler II, 351 Cleveland




"Id rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy" Ben Franklin 1755
Re: 727 Trans Slow to Shift at WOT [Re: RSI700VIPER] #2908214
04/08/21 10:33 PM
04/08/21 10:33 PM
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dvw Offline
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You have to set the shift light early. If its a stock valve body casting the amount of RPM gain increases as the car gets quicker. The feed to the front servo has a long path. You'll notice the 2/3 will have less RPM gain. To shift at 6900 my 1/2 is set at 6300. The 2/3 is set at 6450. This is in a 9.1X ET car.
Doug

Re: 727 Trans Slow to Shift at WOT [Re: dvw] #2908225
04/08/21 11:13 PM
04/08/21 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dvw
You have to set the shift light early. If its a stock valve body casting the amount of RPM gain increases as the car gets quicker. The feed to the front servo has a long path. You'll notice the 2/3 will have less RPM gain. To shift at 6900 my 1/2 is set at 6300. The 2/3 is set at 6450. This is in a 9.1X ET car.
Doug


So Doug, this is typical then? I have a good set of pills so I can adjust as needed.


1970 Superbird 440 Six BBL, 4-Speed, Dana, FJ5
1969 Daytona Charger 440 4-Speed, Dana, EV2
1971 340 Challenger Conv. Flemington Speedway Pace Car, FC7
1970 340 Six Pack Callenger T/A 4-speed T8 Tan
1971 340 Challenger RT Formal Roof, EV2 w/ V2 Stripe & Orange Houndstooth
1969 Talladega Torino, 428CJ
1969 Gurney Special Cyclone Spoiler II, 351 Cleveland




"Id rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy" Ben Franklin 1755
Re: 727 Trans Slow to Shift at WOT [Re: RSI700VIPER] #2908226
04/08/21 11:23 PM
04/08/21 11:23 PM
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Have you adjusted the front band lately?
If not do that next and see if that helps the 2/3 shift scope wrench
The other thing to check is the shifter linkage adjustment, you should be able to put the shifter in 2nd gear and remove the shift rod retainer and push the rod end up out of the shift arm from the tranny and see no movement on the arm, if that is good check 3rd gear engagement next. If either one move adjust the linkage so it does not move at all when putting the shift rod end into the shift arm hole in all 3 gears, reverse and neutral scope
I've had and race with many 727 T/A Cheetah reverse manual valve bodies in both the early cable shifters cars and the 1966 and later tranny, all of them shifted quickly clean when adjusted properly up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 727 Trans Slow to Shift at WOT [Re: Cab_Burge] #2908317
04/09/21 08:03 AM
04/09/21 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Have you adjusted the front band lately?
If not do that next and see if that helps the 2/3 shift scope wrench
The other thing to check is the shifter linkage adjustment, you should be able to put the shifter in 2nd gear and remove the shift rod retainer and push the rod end up out of the shift arm from the tranny and see no movement on the arm, if that is good check 3rd gear engagement next. If either one move adjust the linkage so it does not move at all when putting the shift rod end into the shift arm hole in all 3 gears, reverse and neutral scope
I've had and race with many 727 T/A Cheetah reverse manual valve bodies in both the early cable shifters cars and the 1966 and later tranny, all of them shifted quickly clean when adjusted properly up


Will do up


1970 Superbird 440 Six BBL, 4-Speed, Dana, FJ5
1969 Daytona Charger 440 4-Speed, Dana, EV2
1971 340 Challenger Conv. Flemington Speedway Pace Car, FC7
1970 340 Six Pack Callenger T/A 4-speed T8 Tan
1971 340 Challenger RT Formal Roof, EV2 w/ V2 Stripe & Orange Houndstooth
1969 Talladega Torino, 428CJ
1969 Gurney Special Cyclone Spoiler II, 351 Cleveland




"Id rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy" Ben Franklin 1755
Re: 727 Trans Slow to Shift at WOT [Re: RSI700VIPER] #2908506
04/09/21 07:54 PM
04/09/21 07:54 PM
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dvw Offline
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Originally Posted by RSI700VIPER
Originally Posted by dvw
You have to set the shift light early. If its a stock valve body casting the amount of RPM gain increases as the car gets quicker. The feed to the front servo has a long path. You'll notice the 2/3 will have less RPM gain. To shift at 6900 my 1/2 is set at 6300. The 2/3 is set at 6450. This is in a 9.1X ET car.
Doug


So Doug, this is typical then? I have a good set of pills so I can adjust as needed.

In my experience, yes
Doug

Re: 727 Trans Slow to Shift at WOT [Re: RSI700VIPER] #2908725
04/10/21 12:31 PM
04/10/21 12:31 PM
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A 1/2 to 1 second delay and the engine only gains 100 rpm?


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Re: 727 Trans Slow to Shift at WOT [Re: John_Kunkel] #2908784
04/10/21 04:45 PM
04/10/21 04:45 PM
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I even had the 2nd gear servo passageways on the valve body made larger, (Turbo Action Chettah). The rpm spread is better now for sure. But it still takes a given amount of time to complete the shift. The quicker the car, the more rpm lag it will have. This is checked using a play back tach. Also why many cars will go quicker with an earlier 1/2 shift point, they're being over revved. Mine runs a red hard band, aluminum drum, lightened sun shell, 3.8 lever. Same band and drum for well over 500 passes. Both looked new at last inspection.
Doug

Last edited by dvw; 04/10/21 04:50 PM.
Re: 727 Trans Slow to Shift at WOT [Re: RSI700VIPER] #2908801
04/10/21 06:05 PM
04/10/21 06:05 PM
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It would reason to me to confirm the position of the manual valve, relative to the passages in the body, when the detent is in the 2nd gear position, and again when in the 3rd gear position. There's a bendable arm on the detent that engages the manual valve to correctly position the manual valve. You may also want to check the valve body for flatness. You may have an internal leak thus delaying the complete engagement of the high clutch.

Removing a few return spring in the direct clutch may help as well.

Re: 727 Trans Slow to Shift at WOT [Re: dvw] #2908830
04/10/21 07:55 PM
04/10/21 07:55 PM
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My trans is taking about 400 rpm to shift... was a lot more until Pro Trans did whatever they did. Playing with the air shifter my ideal 1-2 shift is at 1.4 sec after releasing the trans brake. I try to do that by hand and it’s been from 1.7 to 1.9 which raises the engine rpm considerably (7100 shift point to a 7850). Like Doug said.... the faster your combo the faster things happen. I think a lot of people would be surprised if they saw actual data of their pass.
Our high 10 combo takes 2.3 secs from t brake release until the desired 6800rpm is achieved for the 1-2 shift. Of course a lot of that is I’m using the same converter for our low 9 W8 mill so it drags the rpm line flat for about 1 sec after tbrake release before climbing significantly. 1000 rpm stall between the 2 engines.

Re: 727 Trans Slow to Shift at WOT [Re: John_Kunkel] #2908859
04/10/21 10:15 PM
04/10/21 10:15 PM
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NW New Jersey
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Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
A 1/2 to 1 second delay and the engine only gains 100 rpm?


At 6500 RPMs at WOT under full load, yeah about 1/2 plus second to go from 6500 to 6600.


1970 Superbird 440 Six BBL, 4-Speed, Dana, FJ5
1969 Daytona Charger 440 4-Speed, Dana, EV2
1971 340 Challenger Conv. Flemington Speedway Pace Car, FC7
1970 340 Six Pack Callenger T/A 4-speed T8 Tan
1971 340 Challenger RT Formal Roof, EV2 w/ V2 Stripe & Orange Houndstooth
1969 Talladega Torino, 428CJ
1969 Gurney Special Cyclone Spoiler II, 351 Cleveland




"Id rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy" Ben Franklin 1755






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