Over 1000 hp now to run at the top of AH...

I don’t get out much Steve

Cripes what has happened here?

Hemi's getting a pasting for being too slow?
I think comparing apples to oranges is never a good start!
Everyone knows that the hemi head was far better flowing than a 426 could 'ever' deliver back in the 'olden days'.

We had a 'Koffel wedge' built 68-Dart here in the UK, back in the 90's that could easy beat SS/AH cars but that's not the story here.

The 2531110-M head is supposed to be a copy of the 1965 hemi head.
So in theory it could out perform an iron head of that era?

The exhaust valve angle was always a compromise from 'DAY ONE' so that's being rectified now.

The two MP ali hemi heads have 'been and gone', and some of us would like to use them...

ONLY BECAUSE THE IRON ONES ARE ALL BUSTED!!!

If you can't love a Hemi, then I feel sad for you...

First hemi was 1905 in a car (Europe).

First RACE HEMI was in 1907...

No one here could afford the outrageous costs so they were 'side-lined'...
Mother Mopar re-invented the HEMI in the early 50's I believe?

If only we had got it 'the right way up', 2,500hp V12 hemi tank engine.

Black engine bay, how naughty (how Ford)!

U

Hey John, I think you meant aircraft engine?

Dana 60 is better than the 8 3/4! OOOopss! Wrong thread!

Untitled by Greg Ault, on Flickr

What some have pointed out is the Hemi phenomenon, where one shows up at the track, and its slower than everyone thought it would be, maybe even slower than the wedge in your car.

Admittedly, they take more attention to detail to make them go fast. After you get by the oiling issues and vale train issues, then the HP fun begins. The AH guys are not fooling around, and they know where to find the HP.....The rest of us build it like a stroker wedge, and expect it to go as fast or better....Nope, there is a little more to it....

And builders like Barton, FHO, and others that spend a lot of time building, racing, and tearing them down have learned...Its more of how the chambers in the heads match up to the pistons. I think this is why a lot of the Hemis people build are slower than expected and tend to disappoint.

As BG once told me, there are a lot of Hemi parts out there, you don't just mix and match and have it all work out. You could end up like Hemi Fred did and have to buy some parts again to make it work.

Wedge technology has advanced light years since the old days, that is for sure.

But, everything else being equal, I still take the Hemi. Sure, it has some mystique, but it's earned that. And, once you are set up to run one, and have the stuff and experience it doesn't cost much different to maintain it.

Of course, I've been racing one for 50 years, so that is the perspective I'm coming from. I'm still using factory stuff from many years ago. I have newer stuff here, but this is what I like. Cab is right, they are a little more touchy, and you've got to stay on top of them. For brackets, probably not the best idea, but with the new stuff you can do well. I have a pal who runs a bracket 67 GTX, 426 Hemi, stock everything, hydraulic cam, and wins all the time. It runs 11.80 without skipping a beat. All he does is put gas in it.

The big deal with a Hemi is the high gear. In high gear they will outpull about everything. They make all their power and their magic in second and high gear. The worst thing to do is lift against one. My old guy NSS motor will run 11 flat (E/NSS) at 124-125 mph. A similar wedge or Chevy running the same ET will run 119-121. If I had a nickel for every time I ran one down in high gear I'd be a rich man. I shift it at 6700, and it will run forever. The big Coronet, Ronnie's runs 9.30 at 144-145 mph. When he won the Keystone Nostalgia Nationals last year, you could just see him march past folks in high gear.

Depends what you want. If you want to be fancy, run big rpm, and impress the guys in the barroom, I suppose you could do better. I know many of the big time SS/AH guys, and have for many years. Some of my closest pals. They play a different game than most all of us ham and egg guys. Our Indy wedge motors, do well, too. My son's Indy wedge is an impressive piece. But, for my money, the Hemi is still the king. I like what I do. I'm a vintage guy, racing a vintage combo, in a vintage car. Iron block, iron heads, TRW pistons, NASCAR rods, Super Stock springs, "J" converter, low compression. The ET range keeps my doctors and my wife happy with me. It doesn't cost much to run, or maintain. Set the valves from time to time, change oil, and dump gas in it. I'm happy as a clam. It's amazing that in these arguments, the Hemi is still the barometer they use to measure everything against. That has to tell you something.

Nicely worded Steve!

More 'black engine bays',,, lol and that TOP HOSE is amazing...

Hemi engines were designed and build back over 100 years ago for street cars in Europe!
The picture is a tank 'hemi' engine and they built it 'upside down'?

The WORD 'Hemi' was coined by Mopar and the rest is history...

Been running wedge motors since the early 80's and just wanted to run a Hemi, but the way its going that may not happen?
Got a couple of 'busted 426's' here in the UK but finding a NON busted hemi is difficult at best.

No I don't have $25,000 to buy a new one and if I had $25,000 I would buy a nice Mopar...

The FASTEST car on that TV show you watch is a WEDGE headed 481X FYI....FWIW I have run Hemis and Wedges as well as a 99/06 Hemi. An NA Wedge will make more power than an equivalently built Hemi any day and twice on Sunday, unless you wanna talk boosted applications. Unless we are talking NA99/06 Hemi stuff. But that apples to oranges.

Yeah, I've heard other comments about the top hose. I'm old cut me a break. The car is black and silver.

It's a hose. Water runs through it. Simple. Deal with it.

And that 481X ain’t boosted or sprayed?!! Enough spray or blower any engine can run fast. Are you calling a canted valve a wedge?

+1! Look what Chief is doing with Nitro-methane and a Performer headed Pontiac.

So sorry Steve, only teasing fella.

Can’t believe you have been running hemi’s for 50 years!

All I wanted to do was run a hemi in my car and maybe down the road, just the once lol.

The thought of running one down the 1320 would be a dream, that may never happen...

Was is commonplace for some is a ‘pipe dream’ for others...

I am just responding to your reply, I dont care who runs what on SO, I just know which car has posted the fastest ET and it is a WEDGE head. If you believe a Hemi will out perform a wedge in a Mopar you are flat out wrong...I have done both to the same level and its just the facts.

Man you "Hemi" guys are touchy arent you. I have BEEN there DONE that with both I am not speculating

Al, you are not the first racer to say this, I have heard this for years. BUT only being able to afford wedges has left me speculating as to why this may be? My thoughts are that the Hemi is limited to 1950's architecture (steep included valve angle, high dome pistons, and heavy rocker arms), while the wedges have benefitted from 70 years of development.

I believe that a scaled down pro stock hemi head would leave all the Indy, B-1, and Predator wedges in the dust. Correct me if I'm missing something.

That has been fairly consistent with what I've heard since the Pro Stock guys gave up on the Hemi 20+ years ago. The canted valve setup seems to have eventually ended up on top after years of back and forth. Of course the SS AH guys keep pushing the bar higher but I doubt that Pro Stock will ever go back to 426 Hemi engine.

Of course this only applies to the super serious pro classes. Hemi engines still have a ton of appeal to street guys and bracket racers as well as some class cars. Just doesn't seem to be the way to go if someone wants to make max power per cubic inch normally aspirated. I don't know the reason, has something to do with the big chamber I suppose as well as how the heads flow in use. The Hemi heads flow like gang busters on the bench so that isn't the problem. I'm sure there are few engine builders who busted their pick trying to make them run who could explain the problem. I've never tried to run a Hemi in Pro Stock so I'm not the guy to ask.

A canted valve head is not a wedge, a Chevy 327 is