HEMI guys..... aluminum MP heads

Just saw a FB post with a “what is it worth” P4876857.... I ran the part number and it superseded to a P5153875 which there are 11 of at 5 different dealers across the country. Dealer cost around $1200. When they’re gone, they’re gone!

*while I’m not a “parts guy” I believe my search via dealer connect to be accurate...

They are a bad deal at any price. Edelbrock Victor Jr is the same price as what it would cost to make them as good.

So they’re “junk” basically..... maybe why they’re still on shelves. If that were true there should be W5’s and Stage VI heads out their too! . Perhaps the hemi guys know better and the wedge and small block guys were just a glutton for punishment

I believe the “P515” numbers are the Edelbrock made stock type head.

I’ve done a few set of these....... they’re pretty nice heads IMO.
Way nicer than the MP stuff they replaced.

Maybe if MP stops selling them, Edelbrock will start marketing them as an “RPM” head.

I like the Victors, but I don’t think it’s the best choice for all hemi applications.

Rick, just what is so bad about them? Are the castings poorly done, or is it the quality of the hardware? It sounds like if you got a set for free, you would use them for trot line weights. LOL What is the story?

I'm not sure which part number my aluminum MP hemi heads are, but they've served me well. They were new sometime around 2004-2005.
The guides are soft, but other than that I've had no problems w/ them. Been running them since 2006.

The casting on mine is 2531110-M

Because of the price on the Edelbrocks, (and the flow) they made every other head obsolete for performance applications. The head you are talking about would be fine to put on a stock Street Hemi cruiser.

There is nothing wrong with the heads in a stock power application. I've had them and used them. The problem (for a performance based application) is the price of the Edelbrocks. $2,600 (or whatever they are today). If somebody gives you a new set of the heads in question, you will have to UPS them somewhere, have them ported and larger intake valves installed to get to the 430 cfm that the Edelbrocks flow out of the box, and shipped back to you. Your bill will be close to $2,600. Now do you see the problem? Victor Jr's are a game changer.

My MP heads flow 430 cfm w/ the stock size valve. The Edelbrocks are a great head, especially for the money. I spent over a grand having MCH cnc port my MP heads. Wish they were available back when I built my hemi, but there weren't as many options back then.

If you want a stockish head (or say one for a 472) The Stage V's are better quality and look original to boot, they used to be around $2k a set bare, I haven't priced them lately.

$2500US

Stage V heads are very nicely made pieces....... but...... the bare ones that have been sent to me are fairly labor intensive(unfinished guides and seats) and if you want to get something back that’s “ready to bolt on”, you’ll have several hundred $$ in parts on top of the labor.

For the hot street, street/strip type build using smaller bores and less than 500 cubes, I like the Ede made MP heads.

Mancini shows assemblies at $1485/ea.

P4876 is (was) Cummins. 110-M casting number.
They machined 'em.
Have fun, read between the lines and Come to your own conclusions, I guess

The superseded P515 is Edelbrock. 110-M1 and I believe M2 (showing a little Mopar humor) casting number.

Supersessions usually happen for a good reason....

The head were talking about is one of the items MP management (of the 2008 timeframe) replaced
based 100% on customer input. Same managers who did the world block, the aluminum 452 wedge
Head, the wedge branded rpm intake, and alot of other very worthwhile projects.
Some effort went into it.

I guarantee more would have happened for the good, had the same staff stayed on.

Is P515 NS1?
If it isn't, then I'm not sure what to make of "when they're gone they're gone" (unless referring back to the p4876 stuff)

I thought there was some seat falling out issues with the early ones?? Sent the set I had in and had new seats installed, made them a little pricier. Jim

You’re the end of the MP era Zip.... cool insight. They changed up the parts page and I didn’t note an NS1...familiar with that code of death from looking for R3s. Guess I brought that “ASSumption” on myself looking at the current administration and the fact this old stuff is dying. I was like “WOW” that there was still a performance part on some shelves

Well, thank you. Been out since 2013 but this stuff is in my blood.
I'd consider going back under perfect circumstances (probably never happen).

There are many great running vehicles out there with Cummins machined heads.
Chip's car comes to mind! So they are not at all horrible products, but it's smart to have
Them checked and gone through.

The p515 are just more user friendly, like most Edelbrock products.
I really have to hand it to them.

They only have to hire and empower one or two qualified folks who cares, and are pissed off and driven enough to force
the changes needed. I know someone who....I'm fairly confident....could fix the whole block supply issue in probably less than a year.

The block issues were fixed once before - not too long ago. All the prints for the fix are in file cabinets down in Centerline.
That engineer retired not too long ago and recently he told me he received phones calls asking where the info was.

So maybe someone is actually looking to tool up again? One can only hope.

Speaking of blocks, does anybody have some prints or CAD files? I have the front and rear bolt pattern drawings from the Chrysler books and various other little things, but does anybody have a file that I can use to machine a block from a billet?

Well one can only hope.

Trans, from your discussion with D*****, it would seem
You might be talking about quality and engineering related problems with 2006 era water blocks,
Wheras I was attempting to talk about supply chain/purchasing and procurement issues with 2008-up
Dalton/World/formerly Royal oak boring (most recent NB Fowlerville) Siamese products.

In the case of the more current Siamese piece, it's a matter of getting people paid and kicked off.
the engineering related items were mostly ironed out. Compared to the water block, it might
Be low hanging fruit.....easier to deal with. That's the one I was referring to...

Truth be told, demand is high for both products...they're missing the boat....

I like D*****, However I have to remember when communicating with him he always considered
The World block to be vastly inferior, and something of a joke because of the amount of
engineering input from outside sources.
As you can imagine, I have opinions on that but will keep em to Myself.

Zippy - not sure who D****** is. My discussion on the fixes for the blocks was the actual engineer.

And yes I realize you were talking something else - I just piped in that the prints are there, fixed, someone has to step up just like you mentioned.

Glad you corrected me, never afraid to be wrong especially when I find myself making assumptions that
obviously may not be true.

D***** was the last name of the engineer until '08-ish.

The name of the engineer who you spoke with, even an initial and how many
characters in the name would help me a little. But I'd understand if that info is confidential.

Have a nice holiday!

L*******

He was involved in the NASCAR program pretty heavy but Motorsports for quite a while.

Thanks, nobody I'm familiar with then... Dave Daun*** was the only one from the circle
track camp I associated with.

In the beginning of my time, pre bk, that type of activity was split
with a few dedicated staff in cl, + several srt frec staff also had specific
Focused activity. It all changed later.

Ok J_Body, ''when they is gone they is gone'' has happened!

Seems to be a World shortage of MP hemi heads now and even though 'they is POO' they is all gone...

Think they should have made some more (100 or 1000) and machined them a little better and charged a smidgeon more?

As my dad always said ''if a job's worth doing, its worth doing well'', God rest his tortured Soul.

Whereas my neighbore was the opposite, he used to bodge everything and do it real quick with no finesse (he's dead too).

So the moral of the story is... being a bodger or doing stuff right is OK, whatever you are happy with... (you still end up dead)

Sort of like - “whomever dies with the most toys - is still dead”.

Sounds like Donato to me. I talked to him about the DP Challenger and treated my questions like I was a step child. (For reference, the questions were about the DP Hemi intake being an EFI version of the TALL carb manifold, and of a Body-in-White DP Challenger). If he was in the ocean, I'd throw him a concrete life preserver. I last saw him hanging out with Jim Hale in Ennis many years back. I kept walking.

We race four NSS Hemi cars, two of them have these so called 'junk' MP Heads on them.
Both run very well, no issue. In fact the last NSS event we raced we ran the Hemi Dart with those 'junk' heads on, and it went 5 rounds running 9.60s. Perhaps we should take them off and get rid of them. We've been racing Hemis for close to 50 years, and some how t hat got by us.....

I had collected several pairs of the old 110-M heads including one NOS,
But sold them all (except one good used pair) to a local machine shop,
Turned around and spent the proceeds from that sale new sheet metal for my gtx.

I still have the good used pair, so if anyone needs them really super badly or whatever, give me a shout.
If I could get a halfway decent price for them I’d gladly replace them with the newer MP heads.

I need one head, too bad you sold them, my luck

Everyone needs a spare hemi head, its the nature of the BEAST!

I'm sure we can all get together and sort out a deal, then we can all 'sleep soundly' before we 'pop our clogs'...

Love the quote STEVE!

Old age and treachery 'TRUMPS' youth and etc...

ps I know what you mean about the 'step-child' thing...

At what cubic inch?

A ‘junk’ Hemi head starts where the wedge head is gasping

In our cars we have one 528, two 472 inchers (that Dart is a 472) , and, me, the dinosaur races a 426. Cause I'm old, it's all old school parts that I've had for years. Racer Brown cam, NASCAR rods, TRW pistons, cross ram, "J" converter. Shift it at 6500, runs high tens low elevens. I don't have to work on it, just change oil and set valves from time to time. Getting close to 70 now, don't want maintenance. Suits me fine.Hardly ever take the hood off of it. Consistent as a clock. This one has old iron heads. I've owned the car since March of 1969, 52 years now.

This one is a 528, Stage V heads, Stage V intake with two AVS. Wins a lot of races. Goes 9.30s at 144

9.85 on the window and run some 9:30’s. Sandbagger!,

This one is an original Hemi Road Runner that we (Bud's) have had since the mid seventies. It's a 472, those MP heads no one on this board seems to like, two Carter AFBs on a Stage V intake. This one goes 10.30-s, 10.60s, but we slow it down because it doesn't have a cage and we don't want to cut on this one. We also have a couple of wedge cars between Ronnie, his kids, and me and my kids. You guys do too much whining and complaining on this board. Way too much. Not to ruffle any feathers, but if a lot of guys on this board would spend more time working and learning rather than bitching and whining, they'd be better off.

We have sandbagged, maybe, but in that shot it ran 9.85 apparently. Winning the Keystone Nostalgia Nationals last September it went 9.34 on the winning pass.

Well 9.60's for us is still wedge territory in our drag cars, in fact we should be in the 9.40's this year with our wheezing non-breathing wedge heads heads....But the big lung in my Hemi street car was stuck in the 9.89 range...Which is ok for a street car, but not ok for a 605 Hemi..And I still worry about the vale train on the Hemi. ..We will run it a little this year and see. Got Holley Sniper 4500 on it now, so no excuses.

Do you Hemi guys have a way to check the springs while on the heads?

Just pulling your chain. Nice package.



By the way, what head are you actually running ?

Cast iron original, cast MP replacement, early aluminum MP, later MP/Edelbrock std. valve or later large valve.

I can’t seem to keep them straight.

I go by the original Chrysler p/n.

Lol....he said that in writing...

Not pulling that chain and not talking about that package. SMH.

Don't know the part numbers off hand, but the Dart and the Road Runner have early MP heads, we bought them probably 15 years ago. The 66 Coronet has Stage V heads. My 65 has original iron heads from the late sixties. I do have a set of Edelbrock Victors sitting on the shelf here, bought them last fall. Also have a set of old Barnett prepped iron Super Stock heads. Don't know what will do with them yet. Perhaps turn my son's 64 wedge car into a Hemi, and use them on it. Or put a Hemi in my other son's 71 Satelite. This old man is satisfied with my ancient 426. I'll let them deal with it, and work it out. I'll referee.

Good comments guys!

How does sandbagging work, if you are running to a time?
If you run a 9.30 and folks see it then your 'secret is out'...
Most cars run very close to their numbers, 'day in day out'...
My mates 512 Polara runs 13.2o all day long, every day.
Not fast but consistent as as a swiss cuckoo clock...

I had a Dart that ran 8.20 on pump gas and drove 50 miles with ease...
No It wasn't a Ray Barton hemi, just a 1971 400 iron block with Indy-1 heads...

We all know that getting hemi's to run fast is VERY, VERY expensive...

But that's not the point here, ARE MP heads worth buying at £1200 bucks a pop...

I am now thinking maybe, just maybe, ditch the MP heads and 572 block and just go with PLAN-A, a KB...

If anyone wants to scrap out some of those Junk MP heads ill send my fedex account so you can send em my way !

I have a set of them of them MCH porting and I made 1000hp with them, so I am pretty sure with the right prep those heads can work well in almost any application. Also if you end up with them make sure to have them decked flat, that is why a lot of those castings leak water in the corner. The ones i had were warped out of the box. It all comes down to dollars. I wouldn't pay retail as better heads exist for the money, but if you can get a deal on them they will work well.

Still need one myself, the other one is so lonely, it’s starting to do weird stuff!

If anyone wants to scrap out some of those Junk MP heads ill send my fedex account so you can send em my way !

I'll offer to get rid of them for you. Matter of fact, if they are within a few hundred miles of Pittsburgh I'll run over and pick them up for you. Retired, got plenty of time, it will be my contribution to a less cluttered environment in your shop.

To anyone who needs the 110-Ms....if you haven't yet, try calling Dwayne at Thunder Performance.

I had hoarded a medium-sized pile of those heads over the years working for the big blue "M", and sold him several of them last year.
(one was NOS). He had those as of early September '20, but not sure what he did with them.

I did keep one good used pair that the guy swapped out for Indy heads, but don't know when I'll get around to using them and am kind of on the fence about selling.

Do you have a good link to Dwayne?

PMd you his phone number again.

He doesn't have a website..

There is a single bare -M2 Aluminum head on eBay right now. New in the box.

I have a set I bought about 8-9 years ago that I am finishing for my SS car. I know a few of the Stock Eliminator guys are running them as well. Don Little has had the most success with them, even dabbling in SS a little with his Stocker.

I did.

Hi Zippy and all who have contributed to this fine thread!

There are several folks 'out there' who need another 'MP' head or two lol.

If anyone in Moparland has a spare head or two ,PLEASE, PLEASE advertise them 'on here' or EBAY for us overseas buyers!

Not that fussed what I end up with really, an early 'SEAT-DROPPER' 'M head' or a revised 'M2', NOS would be wonderful.

Unfortunately some of you GUYS do NOT like to ship to the UK for understandable reasons (Gozzzy)...

But we are needing some help over here to run the 'rarest' of all beasts a 'HEMI' in the UK!

I've waited all my adult life to get a Hemi up and running on a 'pensioners budget', so any help greatly appreciated...

Limey Pensioner John

I too am hoping to do this in my Limelight 71 GTX (437ci Hemi)...

I've made more HP per C.I. with N/A BB, B and RB motors, than with N/A hemi motors BB 920 HP with a 540 C.I. B 1 motor single four barrel carb. which = 1.71 HP per C.I.
4.495X4.25=539.5 C.I. EFI dual throttle body with a 573 C.I. Street Hemi motor made 799.6 HP @ 6500 RPM which makes 1.40 HP per C.I.
Hemi motors (Hemiroid motors ) are over rated Their pistons are heavy, the valve train is not as stable in stock form as the wedge motors are and they are more work and money to build decently
Be careful of what you ask for

No doubt, if your building a hemi it is generally for a nostalgic appreciation of the motor. Easier way to go fast. What i will say is the hemi will carry a lot more weight on the resale side.

Well I guess a 440 would have run faster in those 68 Cuda’s and Darts than the stupid Hemi, what was Chrysler thinking?!

That was 60 years ago. They didn't know then what we know now.

So they DON’T use the same knowledge on any engine now?
BTW what’s the go to engine now on the Street Outlaws? It ain’t no ‘wedge’ engine from what I’ve seen

Is the 99 race Mopar hemi a Hemi motor or not?
426 Hemiroid motors were design, cast and put into production in late 1963 to help Dodge and Plymouth stay ahead of the other brands and the motors had to be installed on assembly line per NHRA and NASCAR rules at that time, hence the compromise on designing the valve train
As far as a billet all out aluminum race hemi that has had all the bad OEM design problems fix under todays rules that can't be ran on the street is it still consider Hemi or is it a all out custom built race motor
I think the first Hemi motor designs were made in air cooled aircraft engines in the early 1900s.
European car makers were using them long before Chrysler started making and installing them in the 1951 Chrysler V8 cars

Let’s see, SS/AH Hemi at .080”:over is 441 cubic inches.

Last I heard they are around 950hp.

950 / 441 = 2.15 hp per cu. in. Even at 880 hp that’s 2 hp per cube.

Over 1000 hp now to run at the top of AH...

I don’t get out much Steve

Cripes what has happened here?

Hemi's getting a pasting for being too slow?
I think comparing apples to oranges is never a good start!
Everyone knows that the hemi head was far better flowing than a 426 could 'ever' deliver back in the 'olden days'.

We had a 'Koffel wedge' built 68-Dart here in the UK, back in the 90's that could easy beat SS/AH cars but that's not the story here.

The 2531110-M head is supposed to be a copy of the 1965 hemi head.
So in theory it could out perform an iron head of that era?

The exhaust valve angle was always a compromise from 'DAY ONE' so that's being rectified now.

The two MP ali hemi heads have 'been and gone', and some of us would like to use them...

ONLY BECAUSE THE IRON ONES ARE ALL BUSTED!!!

If you can't love a Hemi, then I feel sad for you...

First hemi was 1905 in a car (Europe).

First RACE HEMI was in 1907...

No one here could afford the outrageous costs so they were 'side-lined'...
Mother Mopar re-invented the HEMI in the early 50's I believe?

If only we had got it 'the right way up', 2,500hp V12 hemi tank engine.

Black engine bay, how naughty (how Ford)!

U

Hey John, I think you meant aircraft engine?

Dana 60 is better than the 8 3/4! OOOopss! Wrong thread!

Untitled by Greg Ault, on Flickr

What some have pointed out is the Hemi phenomenon, where one shows up at the track, and its slower than everyone thought it would be, maybe even slower than the wedge in your car.

Admittedly, they take more attention to detail to make them go fast. After you get by the oiling issues and vale train issues, then the HP fun begins. The AH guys are not fooling around, and they know where to find the HP.....The rest of us build it like a stroker wedge, and expect it to go as fast or better....Nope, there is a little more to it....

And builders like Barton, FHO, and others that spend a lot of time building, racing, and tearing them down have learned...Its more of how the chambers in the heads match up to the pistons. I think this is why a lot of the Hemis people build are slower than expected and tend to disappoint.

As BG once told me, there are a lot of Hemi parts out there, you don't just mix and match and have it all work out. You could end up like Hemi Fred did and have to buy some parts again to make it work.

Wedge technology has advanced light years since the old days, that is for sure.

But, everything else being equal, I still take the Hemi. Sure, it has some mystique, but it's earned that. And, once you are set up to run one, and have the stuff and experience it doesn't cost much different to maintain it.

Of course, I've been racing one for 50 years, so that is the perspective I'm coming from. I'm still using factory stuff from many years ago. I have newer stuff here, but this is what I like. Cab is right, they are a little more touchy, and you've got to stay on top of them. For brackets, probably not the best idea, but with the new stuff you can do well. I have a pal who runs a bracket 67 GTX, 426 Hemi, stock everything, hydraulic cam, and wins all the time. It runs 11.80 without skipping a beat. All he does is put gas in it.

The big deal with a Hemi is the high gear. In high gear they will outpull about everything. They make all their power and their magic in second and high gear. The worst thing to do is lift against one. My old guy NSS motor will run 11 flat (E/NSS) at 124-125 mph. A similar wedge or Chevy running the same ET will run 119-121. If I had a nickel for every time I ran one down in high gear I'd be a rich man. I shift it at 6700, and it will run forever. The big Coronet, Ronnie's runs 9.30 at 144-145 mph. When he won the Keystone Nostalgia Nationals last year, you could just see him march past folks in high gear.

Depends what you want. If you want to be fancy, run big rpm, and impress the guys in the barroom, I suppose you could do better. I know many of the big time SS/AH guys, and have for many years. Some of my closest pals. They play a different game than most all of us ham and egg guys. Our Indy wedge motors, do well, too. My son's Indy wedge is an impressive piece. But, for my money, the Hemi is still the king. I like what I do. I'm a vintage guy, racing a vintage combo, in a vintage car. Iron block, iron heads, TRW pistons, NASCAR rods, Super Stock springs, "J" converter, low compression. The ET range keeps my doctors and my wife happy with me. It doesn't cost much to run, or maintain. Set the valves from time to time, change oil, and dump gas in it. I'm happy as a clam. It's amazing that in these arguments, the Hemi is still the barometer they use to measure everything against. That has to tell you something.

Nicely worded Steve!

More 'black engine bays',,, lol and that TOP HOSE is amazing...

Hemi engines were designed and build back over 100 years ago for street cars in Europe!
The picture is a tank 'hemi' engine and they built it 'upside down'?

The WORD 'Hemi' was coined by Mopar and the rest is history...

Been running wedge motors since the early 80's and just wanted to run a Hemi, but the way its going that may not happen?
Got a couple of 'busted 426's' here in the UK but finding a NON busted hemi is difficult at best.

No I don't have $25,000 to buy a new one and if I had $25,000 I would buy a nice Mopar...

The FASTEST car on that TV show you watch is a WEDGE headed 481X FYI....FWIW I have run Hemis and Wedges as well as a 99/06 Hemi. An NA Wedge will make more power than an equivalently built Hemi any day and twice on Sunday, unless you wanna talk boosted applications. Unless we are talking NA99/06 Hemi stuff. But that apples to oranges.

Yeah, I've heard other comments about the top hose. I'm old cut me a break. The car is black and silver.

It's a hose. Water runs through it. Simple. Deal with it.

And that 481X ain’t boosted or sprayed?!! Enough spray or blower any engine can run fast. Are you calling a canted valve a wedge?

+1! Look what Chief is doing with Nitro-methane and a Performer headed Pontiac.

So sorry Steve, only teasing fella.

Can’t believe you have been running hemi’s for 50 years!

All I wanted to do was run a hemi in my car and maybe down the road, just the once lol.

The thought of running one down the 1320 would be a dream, that may never happen...

Was is commonplace for some is a ‘pipe dream’ for others...

I am just responding to your reply, I dont care who runs what on SO, I just know which car has posted the fastest ET and it is a WEDGE head. If you believe a Hemi will out perform a wedge in a Mopar you are flat out wrong...I have done both to the same level and its just the facts.

Man you "Hemi" guys are touchy arent you. I have BEEN there DONE that with both I am not speculating

Al, you are not the first racer to say this, I have heard this for years. BUT only being able to afford wedges has left me speculating as to why this may be? My thoughts are that the Hemi is limited to 1950's architecture (steep included valve angle, high dome pistons, and heavy rocker arms), while the wedges have benefitted from 70 years of development.

I believe that a scaled down pro stock hemi head would leave all the Indy, B-1, and Predator wedges in the dust. Correct me if I'm missing something.

That has been fairly consistent with what I've heard since the Pro Stock guys gave up on the Hemi 20+ years ago. The canted valve setup seems to have eventually ended up on top after years of back and forth. Of course the SS AH guys keep pushing the bar higher but I doubt that Pro Stock will ever go back to 426 Hemi engine.

Of course this only applies to the super serious pro classes. Hemi engines still have a ton of appeal to street guys and bracket racers as well as some class cars. Just doesn't seem to be the way to go if someone wants to make max power per cubic inch normally aspirated. I don't know the reason, has something to do with the big chamber I suppose as well as how the heads flow in use. The Hemi heads flow like gang busters on the bench so that isn't the problem. I'm sure there are few engine builders who busted their pick trying to make them run who could explain the problem. I've never tried to run a Hemi in Pro Stock so I'm not the guy to ask.

A canted valve head is not a wedge, a Chevy 327 is

I think Pro Stock comes down to a cubic inch issue. I don't think the Hemi works well in the 500" setup (anymore). The last two serious efforts were Jeff Wick in the mid-90's, and Bill Dempsey in the late 80's. Reid Whisnant's DLI stuff was based on a KB block with heavily modified D5 heads, which were already 10 years old when Landy was working on that program. The current Sonny Leonard Chemi stuff has some similarity to a Chrysler Hemi as far as the the valve layout and chamber, but the exhaust is slightly canted compared to the intake. The piston is mostly flat. Again, cubic inches...these things are king in the Mountain Motor world.

One of you guys posted this a few weeks back.

https://youtu.be/5Vvu-bCMg-w

No problem. No offense taken. I'm too old and cranky to be offended anyway.

I'll be 69 this year. My cousin bought a new aluminum nosed A864 Dodge and I helped on that as a teenager, until I started racing my own in 1969. Been racing them ever since. Still at it. Among my closest friends are many of the name SS/AH racers. Over the years was close to many of the legends, sadly, many of them have passed. Ronnie, Bill Stiles, Arlen.....the memories and pals have revolved around Hemi drag racing. Been a great time.

This one runs just where I want it. My doctors and wife don't get mad at me, and I don't run it hard. . I don't do this to impress anybody, and I've long since figured I'm not going to make money at it. Still having fun, grateful for the chance to have done it, and still do it when I feel like it. I've been blessed. So many never had the opportunity.

Gotta tell you, though, for sheer entertainment it's hard to beat this board. The stuff you hear. MP Hemi heads are junk. OK. You make more power with a wedge than with a Hemi. That's not what I've seen over 50 years, but, OK, if you say so. The Street Outlaws apparently have the answers. I don't argue with folks anymore, and I'm not into latest fad. You know, it's something. When I built that 65, it was top shelf. Then for years, it was "are you still running that antique?" Now, it's come full circle, it's cool again.

Keep going guys.

In Pro Stock, the issue is the big rpm range. A good pal of mine raced a Hemi Arrow in IHRA Pro Stock, the former Arrow owned by the Barnetts. Barnett still did the motors.

He would use Barnett's dyno, and Warren Johnson also used it for his Oldsmobile motors (this was in the early and mid eighties). We found that the Hemis made more power than the Olds until about 8200, then the Hemi dropped, and the Olds (DRCE) kept going. The issue is that on the overlap cycle of the camshaft the charge would blow right through the chamber, as the valves oppose each other and when both valves were open the charge just blew through.
Now, the SS/AH guys have some of that straightened out, mostly by changing valve angles and new, fancy valve trains. The Hemi 99 operated great at a lot of engine speed, too, as there were some design changes that fixed that, but NHRA's limiting the motors engine speed kind of screwed them. That's one of the reasons AJ quit.

But, for ham and egg racers, like most of us are, I'm still sold on the Hemi. Do I think you make more power with a wedge than with a hemi, with similar engine combos? No, I don't. But, I'm not going to argue about it. Do I think MP heads are junk? No, I don't, but I'm not going to argue about that, either. Whatever. Believe what you want.

I don't know why I still do this. I must be nuts, but I love it. As I mentioned, our little group runs 4 Hemi cars, 2 Indy wedges, and even a Duster with an Indy headed 416 small block that flies for what it is. But, I don't drink, don't hang out in barrooms, so, I gotta do something. Over the years I've accumulated Hemi blocks, heads, cams, all kinds of stuff. I just bought a set of Indy Victors, and I don't know what I'm going to do with them. I must need my head examined. I suppose my boys will replace one of their wedges with a Hemi one day .

Well Ill let you overly sensitive Hemi guys have your fun. But let me know when one of you can bolt together a 525" NA Hemi that can go 170 in a 2975lb car. It was not even a max effort deal, it was in a .90 car Hell it replaced a Stage V Millenium Headed 572 that could not get out of its own way and only managed to go 161 at 3100lbs, in the same car. Similar builds using similar components. Both bracket deals that ran .90 stuff. Hell I could go as fast on the stop with the wedge as the Hemi ran all out at 10.90. Hell show me your NA Hemi combos running 190 in a 2350lb car, Ill wait. Those are some of the Wedge engines I have run over the years. But wait theres more, how bout 170 with a 416" SB in a 2750lb car as well, it aint a hemi head either, but at least thats attainable power for one

Nice replies GUYS!

If it weren't for your love and passion for these 'old crates' then this site and many others 'WOULD NOT EXIST'!

The problem now is that there is a lack of CHEAP Moparts so 'lesser POOR folks' won't get involved.
Lots of guys are still running Mopars, BUT with Chevparts...!

I feel sad for them because Moparts (engine/trans/axles) are what its ALL ABOUT!

If the 'POWERS TO BE' don't get some cheap engines/transmissions available then its all gonna fade away...

All I want is a MOPAR PERFORMANCE aluminum hemi head and its 'LIKE PULLING TEETH'.

The days of hemi's running anywhere 'but in the USofA' are coming soon.

It will soon be Mopars running with CHEVPARTS here, there and everywhere... FORGET running a hemi, that's a given...

Well, OK then.

I don't know who is sensitive, I really don't care. I disagree. But, if you are running that fast with NA motors, you are messing around with big $$ and modified stuff that the average guy here is not even relating to. I guarantee you nothing in that combo comes out of a Mopar Performance box. So, good job, but I guarantee you old guys like me are not really interested. It's nothing I can relate to, nor afford. Way too fast for me.....I don't even WANNA do that. I still like using factory and factory type stuff. That kind of stuff relates to ham and egg old guys like me about as much as top fuel dragster does.

Those are impressive performances, for sure, but it's not something I can even relate to, nor am interested in.

That was me....Those things are just pure engineering jewelry at its best.

Kind of sums up the hemi vs. wedge differences from an expert. How long before this discussion turns to gas vs. electric?

They are terrible! Worst engine ever! Everyone should get rid of them ASAP!

Send all your parts to me for proper disposal.

Sounded like a toss up depending on application. There goes the Pacific ocean beach house.

Like oil that’s been on the shelf for over a year lol

That's all junk too!

Send it all to me, I'll get rid of it