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Re: Roll racing [Re: moparjim79] #2871351
01/08/21 08:09 PM
01/08/21 08:09 PM
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Posts: 16,257
So Near, Yet So Far
topside Offline
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Post deleted; only applied to half the discussion, and the wrong half at that.
Sorry to interfere.

Last edited by topside; 01/08/21 08:40 PM. Reason: never mind
Re: Roll racing [Re: topside] #2871355
01/08/21 08:22 PM
01/08/21 08:22 PM
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Central Pa
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moparjim79 Offline OP
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Jesus Christmas guys, we are not talking about street racing. Just Google it if it's too confusing.

Re: Roll racing [Re: moparjim79] #2871358
01/08/21 08:27 PM
01/08/21 08:27 PM
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Nampa Idaho
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67vertman Offline
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Originally Posted by moparjim79
Jesus Christmas guys, we are not talking about street racing. Just Google it if it's too confusing.


Hahah tell them to watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch/wftut2sW90Q

This is in Trona Ca.....you will see all types of cars! It is lots of fun to watch and participate in My brothers 2007 Corvette hit 164 mph. He wants to do a rolling mile course next.

Re: Roll racing [Re: moparjim79] #2871378
01/08/21 08:54 PM
01/08/21 08:54 PM
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It's not my cup of tea, however, I can see the appeal if yours standing at the top end and you're watching exotic cars go at it. Those cars are geared for MPH, and you'd never experience that in 1320'. If they aren't super or hypercars, it feels like overcomplicated drag racing.


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Re: Roll racing [Re: moparjim79] #2871395
01/08/21 09:41 PM
01/08/21 09:41 PM
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Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Offline
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Originally Posted by moparjim79
Originally Posted by DaveRS23
Flooring a car at 30mph or 40mph or whatever takes the driver out of the equation as well as car prep. The driver doesn't have to know anything about the car or how to drive. Just floor it at the appropriate time and see what happens.

Today's muscle cars don't have nearly enough traction to use all their power at launch, but then neither did our cars 50 years ago. Getting the car off the line was a HUGE part of the race. Of course, that took practice and skill.

Like so many other things today, no knowledge, no skill, no experience necessary. Just a payment book.

Roll racing is for Pu$$ies. hammer


Spoken like someone who has absolutely no idea or experience in the matter. If you had in your possession a street legal 700+ whp vehicle, you would not speak this way. Go to a true, sanctioned roll race and spectate, or just watch one online? Guys and gals, we are not talking about street racing.


Well, you are totally wrong about me, my car and my experiences. But you are right that I had street racing in mind and have never seen cars on the track that race from a roll. Didn't even know that there were tracks that were long enough for that kind of stuff. Your position seems to be that it takes as much skill to keep a car on the track at many MPH with the tires spinning than it does to launch one. I just don't get that at all. You make it sound too much like drifting in a straight line. Loosing the hole shot is loosing too much of the important stuff for me. Real drag racers have to negotiate the hole shot and maybe fight to keep the car on the track, too. So, roll racing is drag racing with less skill sets.

I do see where there is an audience for roll racing because the vast majority of new muscle car owners cannot drive what they have. They have to roll race. So they like to see real drivers do it, too. It sorta verifies their incompetence. I'll leave it like this; roll racing is not drag racing. It is an acceleration contest, but not drag racing. If you agree with that, fine. If not, well then just keep on rolling.
beer


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Re: Roll racing [Re: DaveRS23] #2871397
01/08/21 09:55 PM
01/08/21 09:55 PM
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160mph is fun. Especially in 5.4 seconds in a 1/4 mile.


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Re: Roll racing [Re: topside] #2871398
01/08/21 10:01 PM
01/08/21 10:01 PM
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N.E. OHIO, USA
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Originally Posted by topside
Post deleted; only applied to half the discussion, and the wrong half at that.
Sorry to interfere.



Aw crap I guess I need to delete my fond memory of my youth and the "roll on" bridge drag race in my then new Road Runner blush cry and on top of it I beat that mod'd 396 Chevelle with a Mopar 383 ...........btw isn't this "roll on" how boat drag racing is done? shruggy

Re: Roll racing [Re: moparjim79] #2871478
01/09/21 07:21 AM
01/09/21 07:21 AM
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Posts: 5,464
Greenville, PA
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Sounds like fun if you have an exotic or a car set up for timing events like Ohio Mile. A standard drag race wouldn't showcase what they have.
Reminds me of my buddy's uncle looking to buy a Ferrari. When he was talking to the salesman about power and handling the salesman told him the car really comes into it's own over 200 mph. eek He ended up buying a new Viper mainly because where the hell around here can you go 200? So who cares?

Re: Roll racing [Re: feets] #2871486
01/09/21 08:01 AM
01/09/21 08:01 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,014
Texas
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Originally Posted by feets

I suggest you watch some serious cars go at it and rethink your position.

There are plenty of 1500+ hp cars with major traction issues at 60+ mph hits. It's not unheard of to have 2000+ hp E85 street cars on 26" tall radials going at it from 60-180 mph. You need to be on your toes when you're painting the street at 100+ mph.



Trying to apply logic again, I see. Get outta here with that nonsense! snowblow


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Re: Roll racing [Re: DaveRS23] #2871500
01/09/21 08:50 AM
01/09/21 08:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
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Central Pa
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moparjim79 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by DaveRS23
Originally Posted by moparjim79
Originally Posted by DaveRS23
Flooring a car at 30mph or 40mph or whatever takes the driver out of the equation as well as car prep. The driver doesn't have to know anything about the car or how to drive. Just floor it at the appropriate time and see what happens.

Today's muscle cars don't have nearly enough traction to use all their power at launch, but then neither did our cars 50 years ago. Getting the car off the line was a HUGE part of the race. Of course, that took practice and skill.

Like so many other things today, no knowledge, no skill, no experience necessary. Just a payment book.

Roll racing is for Pu$$ies. hammer


Spoken like someone who has absolutely no idea or experience in the matter. If you had in your possession a street legal 700+ whp vehicle, you would not speak this way. Go to a true, sanctioned roll race and spectate, or just watch one online? Guys and gals, we are not talking about street racing.


Well, you are totally wrong about me, my car and my experiences. But you are right that I had street racing in mind and have never seen cars on the track that race from a roll. Didn't even know that there were tracks that were long enough for that kind of stuff. Your position seems to be that it takes as much skill to keep a car on the track at many MPH with the tires spinning than it does to launch one. I just don't get that at all. You make it sound too much like drifting in a straight line. Loosing the hole shot is loosing too much of the important stuff for me. Real drag racers have to negotiate the hole shot and maybe fight to keep the car on the track, too. So, roll racing is drag racing with less skill sets.

I do see where there is an audience for roll racing because the vast majority of new muscle car owners cannot drive what they have. They have to roll race. So they like to see real drivers do it, too. It sorta verifies their incompetence. I'll leave it like this; roll racing is not drag racing. It is an acceleration contest, but not drag racing. If you agree with that, fine. If not, well then just keep on rolling.
beer


Ok. Well, if I'm reading again correctly what you posted, its more of the same stuff as before. Do you by chance remember earlier in the conversation where I mentioned my friends ctsv? I posted his 1/4 mile time as well. He attended and participated in regular drag racing. After he dropped around $15 grand on a trans setup to handle his power output, he started to look at other ways to enjoy his progress legally. Most all of these owners regularly participate in regular type drag racing, and then set the car up for roll racing.

Re: Roll racing [Re: moparjim79] #2871505
01/09/21 09:16 AM
01/09/21 09:16 AM
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Benton, IL.
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As long as we agree that this roll racing is not drag racing and takes less skill, there is nothing to disagree about.


KOS
Re: Roll racing [Re: DaveRS23] #2871693
01/09/21 02:19 PM
01/09/21 02:19 PM
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Central Pa
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moparjim79 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by DaveRS23
As long as we agree that this roll racing is not drag racing and takes less skill, there is nothing to disagree about.


Dave, on this matter and everything you've said pertaining to it, no. I'm not going to agree with you. I'm not trying to get you to be "on my side" for this topic, just have you understand your misconception of these folks and there cars and their abilities. Yes, some, but very few are checkbook warriors, but its so few and far between. I'm attracted to the aspect that these are not dedicated track cars but can hold their own against some of them without much effort or prep, and not just drag style racing.

Re: Roll racing [Re: moparjim79] #2871717
01/09/21 02:53 PM
01/09/21 02:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
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Florida STAYcation
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Last nite ...

This apimp in a CRUMmaro ....

Comes along side me ... about 30 mph ... I sez ...

20 roll YOUNG MAN ... you hit it when you want ....

I was past him at 45 smoke


cheap, nosy, obnoxious? ...moi ?? ... just call it a HOBBY !!
Re: Roll racing [Re: Doc Fiberglass] #2872951
01/12/21 12:04 AM
01/12/21 12:04 AM
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The Wet Coast, Canada
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Freaking hell it’s cool, can’t beat them get them with the train horns!


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Re: Roll racing [Re: Doc Fiberglass] #2873607
01/13/21 09:43 AM
01/13/21 09:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
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Great Neck,LI,new york
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Originally Posted by Doc Fiberglass
Last nite ...

This apimp in a CRUMmaro ....

Comes along side me ... about 30 mph ... I sez ...

20 roll YOUNG MAN ... you hit it when you want ....

I was past him at 45 smoke


What would be your excuse when that po-po man asks you for the Drivers licence & AARP card? whistling spank laugh2


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My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: Roll racing [Re: hemi-itis] #2874116
01/14/21 05:17 AM
01/14/21 05:17 AM
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Posts: 279
USA
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ignoble Offline
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There's a group that does roll racing by us, that I've participated in a few times. This is how it works with this particular group...
It's at the local drag strip [ which this year the NHRA division sanctioned + test and tune days, have now limited to 1/8th mile runs, on a track that has been 1/4 mile since forever [ 30+ yrs] ]
The staging lanes are right behind the starting tree here, about 7 -8 stage lanes wide. They set cones at 1/4 mile mark - plus the regular timing billboards are there. and they set another set of cones at the 1/3 mile mark.
The Roll- race and digs "strip" is not on the regular drag path, so there's no rubber laid down.

Every car has its at-the-wheels horsepower written on the windows, so people can gage what might be good competition for their vehicle. Cars line up in the approach area, and if you don't have your next race already set with someone, you ask folks if they want to run versus your vehicle. Standard speed when crossing the " start" at the line of the X-mas tree is 40 mph , but any # can be negotiated, and i was asking for a " roll from 30" due to my cars gearing.

You start back a couple hundred feet, the organizers ask if you want to burn-out [ dry] . Then they wave you both foward, accelerating thru the stage lanes and you both try to be crossing the start line, even with your opponent, at 30 or 40 or 60mph etc. - then you lay into the pedals. Everyone is asked " Roll or Dig ? " - so you can absolutely start from a HandDrop, from a dead stop 0mph, at the X-mas tree line, if you want. Then you run as hard and fast as possible up to the 1/3 mile cone, then let off. So you have rollrace cars leaving the line at maybe 40mph or more , than accelerating for another full 1/3 mile. It's usually about 75/25% or 80/20% - roll race to dig race ratio throughout the day.

My cars are both manual clutch 6 speeds. They are both in the slower, lower HP range for sure. Stock newer chubby scatpak challenger, and a light "kit-car" rear engine V6 twin turbo w/ about 440 crank HP. I disabled the traction control on the Scatpak for all the runs, and the kitcar has just a LSD in the transaxle.

Cars i ran against , some from a dig, most from a roll, with the claimed whp -- Jag XKR vert @510 -- CAddy CTSV @500 -- Merc SL55 @400 --Audi S4 @470 --newer Mustang @560 -- Hellcat Charger+ Challenger @700 -- BMW 235i on E30ethanoltune @450 -- Honda CRV { yes the little SUV thing} @ 600 --
"10 second" VW with VR6engine and 62mm turbo -- Nissan GTR all-wheel-drive @900 -- Acura NSX supercharged @735 -- and a 4 door sleeper BMW 3 series with a turbodiesel on methanol spray+ nitrous @ 434HP+ 738 ft-lbs torque .

There were some older drag oriented american iron that mostly ran digs as well, at the meets. Saw a 68ish Camaro 9 second car vs. a McLaren720. A Lamborghini vs a Tesla. A 600hp 1970's chevy truck vs a 600hp front drive honda, etc
Lots of fast Japanese and European cars as well as American. Several twin turbo and supercharged Vipers. 1000Hp porsche. Just a real broad spectrum of cars and enthusiasts. Anyone was welcome . Many of these cars would be great on a road course track with various turns + braking points also. Hope this helps describe a roll-race day in better detail.

Re: Roll racing [Re: ignoble] #2874129
01/14/21 06:27 AM
01/14/21 06:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 797
Central Pa
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moparjim79 Offline OP
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Central Pa
Originally Posted by ignoble
There's a group that does roll racing by us, that I've participated in a few times. This is how it works with this particular group...
It's at the local drag strip [ which this year the NHRA division sanctioned + test and tune days, have now limited to 1/8th mile runs, on a track that has been 1/4 mile since forever [ 30+ yrs] ]
The staging lanes are right behind the starting tree here, about 7 -8 stage lanes wide. They set cones at 1/4 mile mark - plus the regular timing billboards are there. and they set another set of cones at the 1/3 mile mark.
The Roll- race and digs "strip" is not on the regular drag path, so there's no rubber laid down.

Every car has its at-the-wheels horsepower written on the windows, so people can gage what might be good competition for their vehicle. Cars line up in the approach area, and if you don't have your next race already set with someone, you ask folks if they want to run versus your vehicle. Standard speed when crossing the " start" at the line of the X-mas tree is 40 mph , but any # can be negotiated, and i was asking for a " roll from 30" due to my cars gearing.

You start back a couple hundred feet, the organizers ask if you want to burn-out [ dry] . Then they wave you both foward, accelerating thru the stage lanes and you both try to be crossing the start line, even with your opponent, at 30 or 40 or 60mph etc. - then you lay into the pedals. Everyone is asked " Roll or Dig ? " - so you can absolutely start from a HandDrop, from a dead stop 0mph, at the X-mas tree line, if you want. Then you run as hard and fast as possible up to the 1/3 mile cone, then let off. So you have rollrace cars leaving the line at maybe 40mph or more , than accelerating for another full 1/3 mile. It's usually about 75/25% or 80/20% - roll race to dig race ratio throughout the day.

My cars are both manual clutch 6 speeds. They are both in the slower, lower HP range for sure. Stock newer chubby scatpak challenger, and a light "kit-car" rear engine V6 twin turbo w/ about 440 crank HP. I disabled the traction control on the Scatpak for all the runs, and the kitcar has just a LSD in the transaxle.

Cars i ran against , some from a dig, most from a roll, with the claimed whp -- Jag XKR vert @510 -- CAddy CTSV @500 -- Merc SL55 @400 --Audi S4 @470 --newer Mustang @560 -- Hellcat Charger+ Challenger @700 -- BMW 235i on E30ethanoltune @450 -- Honda CRV { yes the little SUV thing} @ 600 --
"10 second" VW with VR6engine and 62mm turbo -- Nissan GTR all-wheel-drive @900 -- Acura NSX supercharged @735 -- and a 4 door sleeper BMW 3 series with a turbodiesel on methanol spray+ nitrous @ 434HP+ 738 ft-lbs torque .

There were some older drag oriented american iron that mostly ran digs as well, at the meets. Saw a 68ish Camaro 9 second car vs. a McLaren720. A Lamborghini vs a Tesla. A 600hp 1970's chevy truck vs a 600hp front drive honda, etc
Lots of fast Japanese and European cars as well as American. Several twin turbo and supercharged Vipers. 1000Hp porsche. Just a real broad spectrum of cars and enthusiasts. Anyone was welcome . Many of these cars would be great on a road course track with various turns + braking points also. Hope this helps describe a roll-race day in better detail.


Thanks for posting this. The event you attended sounds great with the mix and match of roll and dig.

Re: Roll racing [Re: ignoble] #2874271
01/14/21 01:13 PM
01/14/21 01:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,809
Trumussia
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" Hope this helps describe a roll-race day in better detail."

Yes it does Thanks up

Sounds interesting, maybe more for the competitor than a spectator, but regardless, its racing.


Never Again
Re: Roll racing [Re: jcc] #2874803
01/15/21 03:52 PM
01/15/21 03:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 279
USA
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ignoble Offline
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USA
a few other things i thought was different than a regular drag day.

Since it wasn't racing against an ET bracket style, and there was no fear of breaking out of the predicted time, practically no-one let off the gas pedal before the end.
Also there were no different classes [ pro, sportsman , superpro, jr drags, non-electronic, etc] so there was no time waiting while switching between classes - so other than a couple of mechanical failures/cleanup, the racers just kept cycling thru, and a fellow could have gotten as many runs as he wanted if he just kept getting back in line.

Instead of describing how they did in a race by saying "ohh, i got a 10.52 on a 10.50 dial in, with a .136 reaction time "- it was more like " We were even at the qtr, but he pulled 3 cars {length} on me- or- i won by 2 cars ! "

Also worth mentioning , there was a fellow in an all wheel drive Jeep SRT with a big turbo, i think @ 950hp . If i recall rightly, the Jeep beat an 1100hp late model mustang and a 900hp C6 Vette from a dig, and also beat one of the fast Vipers and a ~750 hp Ferrari from a roll.

Another guy i talked with had a stock plymouth Prowler and he was going against 250-300hp Civics + VW Jettas and such.

Re: Roll racing [Re: 67vertman] #2874972
01/16/21 02:16 AM
01/16/21 02:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 36,570
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted by 67vertman
Originally Posted by moparjim79
Jesus Christmas guys, we are not talking about street racing. Just Google it if it's too confusing.


Hahah tell them to watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch/wftut2sW90Q

This is in Trona Ca.....you will see all types of cars! It is lots of fun to watch and participate in My brothers 2007 Corvette hit 164 mph. He wants to do a rolling mile course next.

Trona, CA is all the way to no where in the middle of the Mojave desert on the west side entrance into Death Valley, it stinks to high heaven from the chemical plant their down
If you take Hwy 395 north from Kramer junction CA towards Ridgecrest, CA you have to turn east off of Hwy 395 north of Johanisburg,(SP?) CA to get to Trona
I have flown over it returning from Furnace Creek in Death Valley, CA. during the winter just to see that part of the Mojave desert, we would normally fly from Furnace Creek south towards Baker, Ca to get home to Hesperia. There are a bunch of restricted airspaces all over SO CA so you have to be careful to not fly into them without permission, there is a very narrow path(about 15 miles side I think) to fly between China Lake Naval air station restricted air space and the next restricted air space south of there towards Fort Irwin National training center.
Those two promotors did good to pull that race off out there, I don't think there are more than 50 motel rooms in Trona work
Ridgecrest is north west of there about 25 miles and it does have a lot more motels and restaurants to choose from, China Lake NAS is next to Ridgecrest and Inyo Kern is about 5 miles west of Ridgecrest, I raced at Inyo Kern drag strip for many years from 1972 to the late 1990s. It was the oldest longest operating drag strip in CA. until it closed up in the early 2000s whiney they raced on one of the taxi ways at the Inyo Kern airport up They would have 5 or 6 races a year, one a month, depending on the weather from Dec until the next May, it got to hot to race in the summer days from May on until mid October or so. No lights for night racing either, racing on Sunday only, sometimes maybe a test and tune for locals only on Saturday once or twice a season.
Days gone by, only in America upboogie

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 01/16/21 02:20 AM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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