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To port or not to port? #2838108
10/27/20 07:23 PM
10/27/20 07:23 PM
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Irving, TX
feets Offline OP
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I've been playing with the 543 build on my computer while I wait for the block to return form the machine shop. Computer dyno software has it's limitations but it should be good for an A to B comparison for properly calculated changes. Knowing this, I modeled my 543 build in Dyno Sim 6 as well as possible. The head flow data came from Hughes website so it may be a little biased. Still, those are the numbers I had so that's what I used. I selected the Hughes SEH3236BL-10 cam for the calculations. It was understood from the start that my old Eddy heads were going to be the choke point on this build.


Knowing the 543 is going to be dragging around 5300 lbs of Imperial wherever I care to go means it's got to be a mild build that still makes plenty of vacuum for power brakes and remain a low maintenance reliable engine.

Check out the projections below. Consider the shift points with a 727 and where the power begins to roll off. Would you pay the $1600 they (or other porting services) want to do a full CNC port job on these heads? The results are on par with their porting results on other common heads.
I don't see massive flow differences between other aftermarket heads below the .550" lift that I'll be playing in.

Thoughts?

Obviously, stock heads are on the left and full CNC ported heads are on the right.

543 port comparison.jpg

We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: To port or not to port? [Re: feets] #2838110
10/27/20 07:26 PM
10/27/20 07:26 PM
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W. Kentucky
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I wouldn't pay Hughes a dime, but I would talk to Dwayne Porter. twocents

Re: To port or not to port? [Re: justinp61] #2838126
10/27/20 08:03 PM
10/27/20 08:03 PM
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Irving, TX
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Originally Posted by justinp61
I wouldn't pay Hughes a dime, but I would talk to Dwayne Porter. twocents


I spoke to him about the cam choice and porting.

The biggest reason I went to Hughes for the info is that they've flowed a bunch of different heads and have the numbers on their site. I like that better than looking at heads that were tested on a hundred different machines all over the world. I'm a data guy and a single source makes for a better A/B comparison in this situation.


As for the fondness (or lack thereof) for the company, that's one of the biggest things that drove me away from racing. There's a non-stop hate fest going on. Racers piss on one guy and put another on a pedestal while the next racer does just the opposite. It's as hypocritical as the 350 lb driver spending thousands to build a light weight race car while refusing to go on a diet himself.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: To port or not to port? [Re: feets] #2838129
10/27/20 08:24 PM
10/27/20 08:24 PM
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KATY TEXAS
csk Offline
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At the very least get a good valve job, Back cut on the intake valve, bowl blend & you will be good to go.


[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49699175113_7f39889fbc.jpg[/img]87379033_2843330729058951_8904448720599252992_o by Charlie Keel, on Flickr
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 3.54gear A518 OD 4100lb,11.04@123 full street car trim
Re: To port or not to port? [Re: feets] #2838130
10/27/20 08:26 PM
10/27/20 08:26 PM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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I am betting bowl work, biggest valves, what ever gives you excellent flow numbers up to your max lift will be your best choice. A wide 110 lsa on a motor like yours sounds all wrong to me. Small heads, HUGE motor! Likes overlap. The question is how much overlap can be used and not screw up the manners down real low? Vizzards book on power has a chart that says a 540 with those heads could do best with a 100 degree LSA! But obviously it might have a pretty ratty idle. Some Harley cams have a similar situation, and aftermarket grinds can be had with 98 LSAs! Something to think about. Time to consider a REAL custom cam!

Last edited by gregsdart; 10/27/20 08:36 PM.

8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: To port or not to port? [Re: gregsdart] #2838148
10/27/20 09:13 PM
10/27/20 09:13 PM
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New York
polyspheric Offline
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Small heads, HUGE motor! Likes overlap

This^^^


Boffin Emeritus
Re: To port or not to port? [Re: feets] #2838160
10/27/20 09:42 PM
10/27/20 09:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,596
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline
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Originally Posted by feets
Originally Posted by justinp61
I wouldn't pay Hughes a dime, but I would talk to Dwayne Porter. twocents


I spoke to him about the cam choice and porting.

The biggest reason I went to Hughes for the info is that they've flowed a bunch of different heads and have the numbers on their site. I like that better than looking at heads that were tested on a hundred different machines all over the world. I'm a data guy and a single source makes for a better A/B comparison in this situation.


As for the fondness (or lack thereof) for the company, that's one of the biggest things that drove me away from racing. There's a non-stop hate fest going on. Racers piss on one guy and put another on a pedestal while the next racer does just the opposite. It's as hypocritical as the 350 lb driver spending thousands to build a light weight race car while refusing to go on a diet himself.


No hate here, I've ran two of his cams, both made good power but neither held up well. As far as their flow numbers go, I'll let that dog lie.

Re: To port or not to port? [Re: feets] #2838161
10/27/20 09:42 PM
10/27/20 09:42 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Porting should be a good investment on an engine that big, even if you don't turn it much more than 4500 or 5000 rpm. I've used Hughes before for port work and they do a good job. I ran a set of their CNC ported Edelbrock heads on a 427 inch SB and it made excellent power. I wouldn't have any problem sending the heads to them. You should have them port match the intake manifold at the same time.

Re: To port or not to port? [Re: AndyF] #2838247
10/28/20 08:49 AM
10/28/20 08:49 AM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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While I agree porting the heads would def be worth power on that combo........Spending $1600 to port some RPM heads wouldn’t be a viable option for me.

If you already own the heads, you could sell them for as little as $600, add that to the $1600 the porting would cost...... and buy TF240’s...... and be money ahead.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: To port or not to port? [Re: feets] #2838312
10/28/20 11:38 AM
10/28/20 11:38 AM
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Portage,michigan
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Originally Posted by feets
Originally Posted by justinp61
I wouldn't pay Hughes a dime, but I would talk to Dwayne Porter. twocents


I spoke to him about the cam choice and porting.

The biggest reason I went to Hughes for the info is that they've flowed a bunch of different heads and have the numbers on their site. I like that better than looking at heads that were tested on a hundred different machines all over the world. I'm a data guy and a single source makes for a better A/B comparison in this situation.


As for the fondness (or lack thereof) for the company, that's one of the biggest things that drove me away from racing. There's a non-stop hate fest going on. Racers piss on one guy and put another on a pedestal while the next racer does just the opposite. It's as hypocritical as the 350 lb driver spending thousands to build a light weight race car while refusing to go on a diet himself.



The numbers they have on the site are “ optimistic” at best
Would wager 95% of people on here would agree.
I would get your Eddies CNC’ed at Modern and be done with it. I doubt they anywhere close to 1600


69 Dart GTS, performance upgrades in progress
11.26@ 118.40 best so far. Stock 360 shortblock with eddie heads.
3310 race weight
Re: To port or not to port? [Re: B3422W5] #2838447
10/28/20 04:51 PM
10/28/20 04:51 PM
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Michigan
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This is a street only, DD build right? I would just use them as is. I'm running OOTB Eddies on my 512 and it still spins the tires on a 40 roll with a 3.54 gear and 285 Nittos. It's going to be like driving around on ball bearings as it is. Save the money. twocents


1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
Re: To port or not to port? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2838497
10/28/20 07:33 PM
10/28/20 07:33 PM
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Oregon
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Yes, the 1.46 valve spring TF240 heads are only $962 each from Summit (free shipping) so that is around $1900 for new heads. Not sure if the $1600 includes shipping back and forth to Hughes. If it doesn't then you'll need to add another $200 to the bill since 50 lbs heads are going to be expensive to ship. The existing Edelbrock heads should be fairly easy to sell locally for a few hundred each.

Re: To port or not to port? [Re: feets] #2838579
10/28/20 11:04 PM
10/28/20 11:04 PM
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I would have to agree, trying to feed a 540 with the Eddy heads even with some porting is not going to be money well spent. My best guess, that on the drag strip, porting those heads on a 540 maybe a tenth in ET. Spend the money for a CNC job on a better set of heads.

Re: To port or not to port? [Re: feets] #2838667
10/29/20 08:52 AM
10/29/20 08:52 AM
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Benton, IL.
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No one has mentioned that 3,300 is the dividing point. The porting offers no help below that point, either in torque or horsepower but does pick up a good amount above that. Where do you plan to spend the most time? Above or below 3,300? And how important is that extra power above 3,300 to your planned usage since there is no gain (actually a little loss) below that. That much low end grunt trying to push that heavy boat will be a major tire-fryer anyway, so would more of the same even be usable?

Why not just try the heads you have as they are to see how you like it? Would it be that big a deal for you to throw the extra coin at them later if you just had to have more? Also, if you wait and still wanted more, you would have a better feel whether you would want to just port the Eddies or move on to bigger, better heads.


KOS
Re: To port or not to port? [Re: jwb123] #2838692
10/29/20 10:05 AM
10/29/20 10:05 AM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Originally Posted by jwb123
I would have to agree, trying to feed a 540 with the Eddy heads even with some porting is not going to be money well spent. My best guess, that on the drag strip, porting those heads on a 540 maybe a tenth in ET. Spend the money for a CNC job on a better set of heads.

You have a point if the OP is wanting a lot of power above about 5,000. But up to that point a small port head on a 540 will be superior in torque output where this deal will want it- 2800 to 4000 maybe? Having run a 535 with ported 906 heads, i can vouch for the torque!


8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: To port or not to port? [Re: gregsdart] #2838723
10/29/20 11:05 AM
10/29/20 11:05 AM
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W. Kentucky
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Has anyone ever seen a street type stroker with a reasonable cam not have tons of torque? I've built two small block street/strip strokers, one with a 4" crank, a 408 and my current one with a 4.125" crank, 434". The 408 had Curtis Boggs ported Edelbrocks with a 260/264° @ .050, .628/.633" flat solid. The 434 has ported Indy 360-1's with a Comp 263/271° @ .050, .711/.719" solid roller. Neither of these engines have been soft on the bottom end, anywhere on the bottom. I understand I'm running a lighter car with more gear, but I find it hard to believe that unless something is way out of kilter in the combo that you're going to make a street type big block stroker soft on the bottom. I guess if you put a set of old pro stock wedge heads on a very low compression build with a huge roller and a 2.76 gear in a dump truck you could muck it up. There is always that guy, but I don't see feets as being him. twocents

Re: To port or not to port? [Re: AndyF] #2838799
10/29/20 01:10 PM
10/29/20 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by AndyF
Yes, the 1.46 valve spring TF240 heads are only $962 each from Summit (free shipping) so that is around $1900 for new heads. Not sure if the $1600 includes shipping back and forth to Hughes. If it doesn't then you'll need to add another $200 to the bill since 50 lbs heads are going to be expensive to ship. The existing Edelbrock heads should be fairly easy to sell locally for a few hundred each.


Modern Cylinder Head ported my Stealths ~4 years ago for $750.


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft.

Re: To port or not to port? [Re: GY3] #2838817
10/29/20 01:40 PM
10/29/20 01:40 PM
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I should havé mentioned this before--- how much flow can be gained with some basic mods? Like bowl porting, backcut valves, whatever will improve flow down low on the cheap? Much less costly and might meet your needs real well. That certainly would raise the torque up above 3200, probably give you 75 percent of the power gains a full port job would?


8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: To port or not to port? [Re: GY3] #2838829
10/29/20 02:03 PM
10/29/20 02:03 PM
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Irving, TX
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I sent an email to MCH to get their opinion on porting vs replacing.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: To port or not to port? [Re: feets] #2838993
10/29/20 07:51 PM
10/29/20 07:51 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Every BB I've worked on made more power by helping the motor get more and fuel up
That include bigger cams, bigger carb, more carbs, better exhaust, bigger heads and better heads and so on up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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