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73 Cuda / Track and Driver #2831531
10/11/20 01:53 PM
10/11/20 01:53 PM
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Tampa FL
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BillR1212 Offline OP
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Hi Team,

First post here, hopefully my pic's come through. I've owned my Cuda for around 5 years. Been driving her around on a 440-505 combo NA for a while. I drive it every day, usually rain or shine since in Florida you can rarely leave and not get caught in the rain. At the track she' running 11.6/11.7 at at 117mph. Engine made 485hp/670tq to the rubber when I last dyno'd it. This of course tells me she was lacking airflow top end, and it shows since 5500 rpms it was out of pull. Either way, the engine is different now. I ended up hanging a pro charger off it, and thought I had a safe tune in it since I didn't build it for boost, but she went lean and needed a rebuild, which is now complete with around 50 miles on it. She's at a local shop getting the valve lash done, and a professional tune this time so I'm excited to see what she can do.

I wanted to list the build below and get thoughts and feedback to have a safe driver, with possibly turning the tune up a bit at the track with race gas. I'm worried that these blocks can't handle the HP past 800, but reading some of the posts here it seems like you guys have kept them together if treated right. The ultimate plan is to get an aluminum block and build a serious track car someday, but I feel I have plenty of fun to be had with this combination for now.

440 block punched to a 505 with a SCAT crank. It was lightened even more by my engine builder and revs like a street bike. Chevy rods, Mahle flat top pistons. Comp blower Cam with solid rollers. 1.5 rockers. Ported Jr. Victor intake, and Eddy RPM heads that were CNC'd and hand ported as well. (I do believe the eddy heads were my limiting factor before, and likely will be still but the blower should push it anyways). It's 9.23:1 compression now with the rebuild. looking to make 9-12PSI and shift at 6000 to keep it safe. Block does not have a girdle, but I'm hoping the lightweight parts and lower shift points keep her together. Holley sniper and MSD 6al2 control the fuel and ignition.

3.23 gears with a gear vendors overdrive for the drive line. I'm running oversized u-joints, and billet slip yolk since the old combo would torch them. Axles and 8 3/4 rear are stock (as things break I upgrade, but so far so good here). I do have upgraded wheel studs in the back. I have caltrek (sp) bars, double adjustable QA1 shocks in the rear and singles up front. Tubular upper lower control arms. Frame is tied together, and a 4 point roll bar. Trans is a fresh rebuild with a 3300 stall converter. Wilwood front brakes which are hopefully working now. been having booster issues but think we finally got them working so I'm excited to finally launched the car on the converter instead of pushing through the brakes.

Anyways thats all I can think of off the top of my head. Excited to get the tune dialed in, and get her on the dyno. Let me know what wheel HP numbers you think she will do and any other thoughts or future upgrades I should plan to help at the track, while keeping her a driver. I'm hoping to be in the low 10's. Not sure of the weight. Never scaled her.

61180348438__D730B980-1DFD-411F-B7DF-5BF2ABD9E870.jpegIMG_1321.jpeg62284939730__0BC7188B-BD04-49B5-8A19-15D7C9BB1119.jpeg
Re: 73 Cuda / Track and Driver [Re: BillR1212] #2831548
10/11/20 02:38 PM
10/11/20 02:38 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,421
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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The lack of a girdle is a big issue..


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: 73 Cuda / Track and Driver [Re: Dragula] #2831553
10/11/20 02:44 PM
10/11/20 02:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,854
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Those 3.23 gears are leaving some quicker ET’s on the table.

Re: 73 Cuda / Track and Driver [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2831629
10/11/20 05:28 PM
10/11/20 05:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,688
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline
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Originally Posted by Pacnorthcuda
Those 3.23 gears are leaving some quicker ET’s on the table.


The boost will make up a large part of that.

Re: 73 Cuda / Track and Driver [Re: justinp61] #2831639
10/11/20 05:46 PM
10/11/20 05:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
TonyS451 Offline
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Welcome and a sounds like a very cool car you have there! The only thing that jumps out to me as a potential problem is the 83/4 rear with all that torque.


2 kids and a dog
Re: 73 Cuda / Track and Driver [Re: justinp61] #2831670
10/11/20 07:05 PM
10/11/20 07:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,854
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Originally Posted by justinp61
Originally Posted by Pacnorthcuda
Those 3.23 gears are leaving some quicker ET’s on the table.


The boost will make up a large part of that.


Yep....when it breaks!

Re: 73 Cuda / Track and Driver [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2831678
10/11/20 07:18 PM
10/11/20 07:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,893
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Dizusters small block turbo car went 10.60s with 2.76.
Dog

Re: 73 Cuda / Track and Driver [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2831682
10/11/20 07:32 PM
10/11/20 07:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,326
Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Offline
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Doesn't look like enough tire out back to hurt the 8 3/4. What are they?


Master, again and still
Re: 73 Cuda / Track and Driver [Re: dvw] #2831709
10/11/20 08:30 PM
10/11/20 08:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,688
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline
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Posts: 11,688
W. Kentucky
Originally Posted by dvw
Dizusters small block turbo car went 10.60s with 2.76.
Dog


What a lot of people don't realize is that boosted cars don't need a lot of gear to go fast.

Re: 73 Cuda / Track and Driver [Re: justinp61] #2831802
10/12/20 08:33 AM
10/12/20 08:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,415
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Nice car! You'll kill the 8.75 rear pretty soon if it hooks. Better to replace it now w/ either a Dana or 9" before you break the trans along w/ it.
Doesn't matter what size the rear tires are, just the type of tires they are. A good drag radial in a little 275-60 will dead hook on any decent track.

FWIW...I've been deep in the 8s w/ a 3.54 gear. The 4.10 was unmanageable launching. The 3.54 REALLY helped. Even on motor only, I don't think the gear swap hurt the performance.
With big power on small tires and stock type suspension, the last thing you want is a deep gear.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: 73 Cuda / Track and Driver [Re: DaveRS23] #2831826
10/12/20 09:53 AM
10/12/20 09:53 AM
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 27
Tampa FL
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BillR1212 Offline OP
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Tampa FL
Originally Posted by DaveRS23
Doesn't look like enough tire out back to hurt the 8 3/4. What are they?


275/60 /15. I also have slicks and front runners for the track. same size

Re: 73 Cuda / Track and Driver [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2831828
10/12/20 10:00 AM
10/12/20 10:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 27
Tampa FL
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BillR1212 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
Nice car! You'll kill the 8.75 rear pretty soon if it hooks. Better to replace it now w/ either a Dana or 9" before you break the trans along w/ it.
Doesn't matter what size the rear tires are, just the type of tires they are. A good drag radial in a little 275-60 will dead hook on any decent track.

FWIW...I've been deep in the 8s w/ a 3.54 gear. The 4.10 was unmanageable launching. The 3.54 REALLY helped. Even on motor only, I don't think the gear swap hurt the performance.
With big power on small tires and stock type suspension, the last thing you want is a deep gear.


Thank you - looking forward to learning a lot. I'm early in my racing aspirations, but I have a blast going out there. Hoping to keep my engine together for a bit, and not run it too hard until I have a backup ready to go. Wish there were more old mopars racing in Tampa area. Seems like everyone has mustangs, Supras, or hellcats. Be cool to watch more older cars go fast.

Re: 73 Cuda / Track and Driver [Re: Dragula] #2831829
10/12/20 10:06 AM
10/12/20 10:06 AM
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 27
Tampa FL
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BillR1212 Offline OP
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Tampa FL
Originally Posted by Dragula
The lack of a girdle is a big issue..


I agree. Can't change that at the moment. My hope is shifting early, light internals along with perfect balancing on them will help keep her together when spinning her hard. If not - then I'll pay the stupid tax and get the aluminum block that I should have started with. Sadly they're 6 month wait times. once life is more stable with all the crap going on I'll get on that list so I'm ready when things go bad on my engine.

Re: 73 Cuda / Track and Driver [Re: BillR1212] #2831886
10/12/20 12:38 PM
10/12/20 12:38 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,421
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Dragula  Offline
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Originally Posted by BillR1212
Originally Posted by Dragula
The lack of a girdle is a big issue..


I agree. Can't change that at the moment. My hope is shifting early, light internals along with perfect balancing on them will help keep her together when spinning her hard. If not - then I'll pay the stupid tax and get the aluminum block that I should have started with. Sadly they're 6 month wait times. once life is more stable with all the crap going on I'll get on that list so I'm ready when things go bad on my engine.


Been wanting to build a Procharged BBM stroker for a while now, just can't bring myself to buy one for $7k. I know you can't change to a Girdle at this point, but in the future, you really need one or a better block. I say this because timing and fuel curve need to be dead on to keep this combo from knocking the bearings out of it. The Sniper EFI to keep the fuel in check, is a great way to go....We run the girdle on all our strokers, and we still see cap walk with our NA combo's shifting conservatively. Not only is yours a stroker, its boosted....any miss on the timing or the fuel, and the bearings or head gaskets will take the hit. Keep an eye on it. If your paying someone to do the valve lash, you have a lot of things on your plate to learn....take your time, and get familiar with your setup. Get used to reading plugs, get used to figuring out how to get them all to look the same, figure out a safe timing curve and how to read it on the plugs, and lastly, just take it slow. Everything that affects an NA car's performance also affects a boosted cars performance, but more. Hang around some bracket racers, and see how they sneak up on a tune up...We know what happens if its off. Your perfect AFR maybe different that someone else's, you need to see what your engine likes.

My buddy just found the boosted limits of a stock block the other week without a stroker kit....He runs a roots blown E85 440 +.03 and turned it up, and knocked the bores right out of it....20psi did that, without a stroker kit! Collect some parts for a future build in the mean time....maybe.

Last edited by Dragula; 10/12/20 12:54 PM.

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: 73 Cuda / Track and Driver [Re: justinp61] #2831947
10/12/20 02:44 PM
10/12/20 02:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,715
Wichita
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GY3 Offline
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Wichita
Originally Posted by justinp61
Originally Posted by dvw
Dizusters small block turbo car went 10.60s with 2.76.
Dog


What a lot of people don't realize is that boosted cars don't need a lot of gear to go fast.


Using nitrous here and it loves the 3.54 gear. Been 10.33 @ 130 with a very similar setup to the o.p.'s with a 200 shot.

Boost/nitrous likes the taller gears and tighter converters.

Last edited by GY3; 10/12/20 02:46 PM.

'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: 73 Cuda / Track and Driver [Re: BillR1212] #2831948
10/12/20 02:45 PM
10/12/20 02:45 PM
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GY3 Offline
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Originally Posted by BillR1212
Originally Posted by DaveRS23
Doesn't look like enough tire out back to hurt the 8 3/4. What are they?


275/60 /15. I also have slicks and front runners for the track. same size


275 E.T. Street Pros are more than enough. We've been 1.37 60 ft with them and Cal-Tracs on leaf springs.


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: 73 Cuda / Track and Driver [Re: GY3] #2831972
10/12/20 03:27 PM
10/12/20 03:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 27
Tampa FL
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BillR1212 Offline OP
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Tampa FL
Originally Posted by GY3
Originally Posted by BillR1212
Originally Posted by DaveRS23
Doesn't look like enough tire out back to hurt the 8 3/4. What are they?


275/60 /15. I also have slicks and front runners for the track. same size


275 E.T. Street Pros are more than enough. We've been 1.37 60 ft with them and Cal-Tracs on leaf springs.


I have a best of 1.6. would be pretty cool to feel a 1.3 60ft.

Re: 73 Cuda / Track and Driver [Re: Dragula] #2831978
10/12/20 03:37 PM
10/12/20 03:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 27
Tampa FL
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BillR1212 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Dragula
Originally Posted by BillR1212
Originally Posted by Dragula
The lack of a girdle is a big issue..


I agree. Can't change that at the moment. My hope is shifting early, light internals along with perfect balancing on them will help keep her together when spinning her hard. If not - then I'll pay the stupid tax and get the aluminum block that I should have started with. Sadly they're 6 month wait times. once life is more stable with all the crap going on I'll get on that list so I'm ready when things go bad on my engine.


Been wanting to build a Procharged BBM stroker for a while now, just can't bring myself to buy one for $7k. I know you can't change to a Girdle at this point, but in the future, you really need one or a better block. I say this because timing and fuel curve need to be dead on to keep this combo from knocking the bearings out of it. The Sniper EFI to keep the fuel in check, is a great way to go....We run the girdle on all our strokers, and we still see cap walk with our NA combo's shifting conservatively. Not only is yours a stroker, its boosted....any miss on the timing or the fuel, and the bearings or head gaskets will take the hit. Keep an eye on it. If your paying someone to do the valve lash, you have a lot of things on your plate to learn....take your time, and get familiar with your setup. Get used to reading plugs, get used to figuring out how to get them all to look the same, figure out a safe timing curve and how to read it on the plugs, and lastly, just take it slow. Everything that affects an NA car's performance also affects a boosted cars performance, but more. Hang around some bracket racers, and see how they sneak up on a tune up...We know what happens if its off. Your perfect AFR maybe different that someone else's, you need to see what your engine likes.

My buddy just found the boosted limits of a stock block the other week without a stroker kit....He runs a roots blown E85 440 +.03 and turned it up, and knocked the bores right out of it....20psi did that, without a stroker kit! Collect some parts for a future build in the mean time....maybe.


I appreciate the feedback, and already glad I joined this forum. The other one I was on was dead, and most people just bashed my set up since she's not a show car. What HP levels where you at when you started to see cap walk? Everything looked good when my builder pulled mine apart, but that was with mostly 480 wheel HP and just a few weeks running boost before I went lean and ruin a ring.

I'm still learning how to work on cars. My friend helps me with just about everything, but now that I moved I don't have that resource anymore. We installed the engine in NC and ran out of time to do the valve lash after the break in miles. I had to leave for Florida so had to find a local speed shop. The pro charger needs to come off to get to the valve cover. Kind of a pain. 10 pounds of [censored] in a 5 pound bucket now. With that said, I'm looking forward to learning, and will take it slow. my bank account needs about a year before I have to R and R engine. Also I miss driving it, can't wait to have her back, and I'll update once I get to a test and tune and take some easy passes. Hopefully dyno results this week to dial in the tune.

what HP was your buddy making before he fried the engine at 20psi? I have a pretty large pulley to limit boost to 9 to 12 PSI depending on my RPMs. if I shift at 5500 I believe that was 9PSI. Assuming I lost 25 - 30 HP by lowing the compression I'd put my rough estimate at 700 wheel HP at 9psi. time will tell.


Last edited by BillR1212; 10/12/20 03:42 PM.
Re: 73 Cuda / Track and Driver [Re: BillR1212] #2831985
10/12/20 03:46 PM
10/12/20 03:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,415
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Posts: 13,415
Marion, South Carolina [><]
I saw cap walk on a 620 hp naturally aspirated 440, so I'm sure you'll have a bunch of it, lol. I think keeping it out of detonation is the best you can do...beyond that, it is what it is.
You'll have fun for sure, just depends on what breaks first as to how expensive the learning curve will be.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: 73 Cuda / Track and Driver [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2832000
10/12/20 04:29 PM
10/12/20 04:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 27
Tampa FL
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BillR1212 Offline OP
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BillR1212  Offline OP
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Posts: 27
Tampa FL
Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
I saw cap walk on a 620 hp naturally aspirated 440, so I'm sure you'll have a bunch of it, lol. I think keeping it out of detonation is the best you can do...beyond that, it is what it is.
You'll have fun for sure, just depends on what breaks first as to how expensive the learning curve will be.


ha - I agree. Bandaid right now to buy some time to save up for the engine that I want. Was that cap walk on stock internals? Not sure how a lighter rotating assembly would effect it if that was stock?

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