Here is the deal. A friend is considering using a 440 block to build a motor that will go 10 flat at 3000 da. So i assume that will require 750 dyno hp to get his 70 charger that weighs 3800 with driver to 10.00. He wants to use his current 2 inch headers and valve gear that are on his eddy rpm heads. Must run on 110 race fuel. 6pak hood stays, so the carb(s) has to fit under a standard 6pak scoop.
My idea- 512 to 525 cube stroker, Trickflow 270 heads, Isky 660 lift rollercam, dominater carb.
What have you all built that will survive in a bracket car and be as reliable as a hammer?

The Moroso chart shows 700hp, as it sits on the starting line for a 10.0@3800lbs.

So, I’d say you should shoot for a solid 10%+ over that on the dyno(STP power).

Making the power shouldn’t be that hard(it’s just $$$$), but it doesn’t seem like it would be super reliable if using a stock 440 block.

WE HAVE DONE 512 +.060 X4.25 STROKE, EDELBROCK HEADS .660 CAM, DUELL EDELBROCKS FOR NSS RULES, 3500 LBS HAS GONE 9.80@137. MADE 740HP.

Tell Dave, what I’ve been telling him for a month now. 512ci low deck, and use the INDY SR heads that he has access to.

First, I know nothing about the Trick flow heads. The eddy heads are done where the Indy heads start.

We have a number of 440Source kits in cars we bracket race with weekly. Mine is one of the faster ones running 6.0's in the 1/8 at +115mph at 3000lbs race weight. Mine is a 400/512 with Indy EZ1 325 heads and I beat the tar out of it this past weekend running 3 separate back to back races.....I think I put 20 some passes on it in two days...Just runs! I don't get to run the 1/4 with it much, but it has been 9.60 when it was still running 6.15's...60fts were 1.29 to 1.31....

The other combo we have and really like is the 440 526-535 combo....We have a 526 in a 3700lb-3800lb B-body running 10.40's on pump gas.....This also uses Indy EZ1 heads, just not the 325's....Car runs awesome and see's a lot of street time too. Great reliable combo. I recommend bigger valves than the 2.19 the heads come with on any of these...

I suspect this 526-535 combo with 12.5 or better compression will hit your goal....

The longer rods of the 440 seem to pull harder on the top end. I am going back to one for next year as +.030 440 stroker that comes out to 535 cubes.

These are all shifted relatively safely at 6400 and last a very long time. We run the girdle and no filler and have had very few problems...I did run mine up to almost 7k this weekend trying to get into the 5's, but didn;t make it at 6.01 in the heat.

We have not done the 543 they offer due to the extreme 4.5" stroke and +.06 over bore kinda scares us....That is also an option in a 440 block.

That is a heavy car. Your plan would work but you'll have to turn up the wick a little bit and you'll be right on the edge of block failure. A 505 with 12.5 or 13:1 compression with 270 heads, a good roller cam and a ported intake should make 750 hp on the dyno. If you have a really good drivetrain you could get that combo to run the number. Not a slam dunk unless the guy has some NHRA class experience then it should be fairly easy.

I have a customer running 9.70 in a 3500 lb B body with that engine combo so if you add 300 lbs that slows it down to 10.00. It can be done but it has to be done correctly since not much margin for error.

9.70’s @3500lbs....... in 3000ft air?

Greg’s last outing has his combo showing about a 100hp differential between STP dyno power and “on track” power in air that’s in the 3000ft range.

Shouldnt be that hard at all. My old Smallblock ran 10 flat at 3350 at that DA in the summer easily. That was on super stock springs. Certainly nothing remotely fancy chassis wise.
Granted, that isnt 3800 pounds, but that only made a true 640 ish horsepower. Guys with big blocks seem to have all kinds of problems...lol

Might be the right way to go. I think the low deck combined with raised exhaust on the SRs would fit like a stock 440+ stock head.

When I’m discussing this type of scenario with a customer, I usually like to touch on the “pass/fail” point.

If the goal is a “10.0”, then is a 10.20 a fail?
If there is a fairly defined goal to meet...... I usually aim for a little beyond that point.

If the goal is more general, like instead of “10.0” it’s actually more like a “low-10”, then there can be more latitude in some of the decisions made for the direction of the build.

At 3800lbs, the difference between a 10.20 vs a 10.00 is about 50hp.

I don't think a stock 440 block at 750hp in a 3800lb car would ever be described as "reliable as a hammer".

Yep & then add in that he wants 10.00 at 3000ft DA

I contemplated a build similar to this before I decided to go w/ an aftermarket block. I was going to do a 4.25" stroke 440 block w/ a pair of Indy CNC 345 heads, one of Dwayne's custom solid rollers, 440-3 intake, custom dominator, etc. My goal was to run 9s at 3800 lbs. and hopefully do it on pump gas...compression in the 11:1 range.
I feel like this is pushing a stock block to its limit, so reliable might be a stretch. One of those engines I wouldn't necessarily be scared to build, but it wouldn't surprise me if the block cracked either.

My old pump gas stroker (517 C.I., 4.375 bore with 4.300 stroke) 400 motor made 727 HP with 10.78 to 1 compression ratio using Oregon 91 octane pump swill. I had tested it several times before with 906 heads and then a set of MCH CNC ported Eddy RPM, I then added a set of 440-1 heads with a Indy 400-3 intake and a Holley 9375 non HP carb, that combination made 775 HP at around 7000 RPM( I don't have those dyno sheets now) I swap those heads to a set of Indy SR M.W size intake ports and used the same carb, intake, fuel and no other changes to that and it motor made 727 HP.
I had a 526 C.I. 440 block stroker motor with close to 13.0 to 1 compression, swapping those heads onto it with no other changes made 67 HP differences, 775 HP with the SR and 847 with the dash 1 heads. I had a set of ductile iron man caps installed on both blocks also as insurance, I won't build a 440 block now to make that much power due to seeing to many stock RB blocks with cracks in the main webbing
I did have a small issue on both of these motors with the 440-1 heads, those heads had been hand ported before I got them and the exhaust ports where bigger on the bottom of the ports by around 1/8 to 3/16 in size, than the header flanges where which made both motor miss a little above 5200 RPM, not a dead miss but a intermittent miss. The pump gas motor would miss from 5200 RPM up to around 6100 RPM, the bigger higher compression motor would miss a little worst from 5200 RPM all the way to peak HP at 7300 RPM
IHTHs
EDITED: These tests where done in Klamath Falls, OR on a new DTS engine dyno, that dyno was around 4300 Ft altitude in that shop. The owner sold the dyno due to it not making him as much money per month as the payments were The weather there wasn't bad or extra good either for all those test, probably around 6000 FT density altitude. Most dyno print out "corrected" numbers to SAE conditions which is "Mean sea level (half way between low and high tide) at 60 F air temps with low to zero humidity and 29.92 barometric pressure
The actual numbers would be more accurate and mean more to me but I didn't know how, neither did the owner, to make that dyno print actual results instead of corrected results

As said, making the power won’t be an issue, provided the budget allows for using what’s needed to get you there.
And there will be endless ways to do it.

Chargerfan68 recently had a low deck 499 on the dyno with Indy 440-1 CNC 325’s and a single 4500 carb........ it was right about 800hp as I recall.

Bowl blended B1’s on a 13:1 low deck 511 would also be an easy way to get to 800+.

I agree with 8sec Cuda, this is pushing a stock block pretty hard. Tune up has to be good and you really can't take a lot of chances with timing or over revs with it. But if well tuned & maintained, it should run for years.

The B1 heads I am curious about. I have seen some steller flow numbers posted from those, I just can't seem to justify going that route. Seems like the easiest head to make that kind of power with. I just wish they didn't need custom headers and pistons or I would have tried a set. I think I could live with the custom pistons, its the headers more than anything.

Not out of the question. The guy runs at Yakima which is typically in the 2000 to 3000 range for air. They also run at Woodburn which is usually 0 to 2000 for air. 3000 ft air will be a bit slower than 500 ft air that is for sure.

Yeah a low deck 511 with SR or -1 heads would probably make a bit more power than the 270 heads. A good intake and a good Dominator or a Sniper 4500 to top it off would seal the deal. Headers should be easy to find for that combo since the port location is roughly the same as an RB block.

Well...... IMO....... the “easiest”...... overall........(closest to an off the shelf/bolt together situation) would be something like a 528/540 using the CNC 345 heads.
About the only “custom” part I’d use for that power level would be the cam..... which as far as custom parts goes...... is the least painful in terms of cost and lead times.
You wouldn’t need fancy rings, or a vacuum pump...... it could be a very bread and butter build and still make 800hp.

I’d probably scale it back a bit for a stock block though.

Off the top of my head.........
440 source 4.375 stroke rotating assy with flat tops
Indy cnc345 top end
440-3/1150 carb
Mill heads for 12-12.5cr
T&D single shaft 1.6’s
Milodon single line oil system
.750-ish lift cam with smooth-ish lobes

Should be a slam dunk for 750-800hp

A swap to TF270’s would likely cost you “some” power...... but save a fair amount off the price of the heads.

That combo would make the power just have to check to see if his existing headers would fit with the raised port heads and if the -3 intake would fit under his hood. Building a low deck combo would allow the headers to fit and would lower the carb a bit but the guy might not have a spare 400 block sitting around.