Re: Locked out distributor
[Re: TonyS451]
#2818364
09/07/20 10:08 PM
09/07/20 10:08 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,159 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,159
Bend,OR USA
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I ended up making a stock Mopar low deck electronic distributer work very well in my old pump gas Duster by shortening up the advance slots so it had right at 18 crankshaft degrees of mechanical advance, which is nine distributor degrees, all in by 1200 RPM. It would start well and idle at 850 RPM in gear with 16 degrees BTDC, a fairly big solid roller cam (260@.050 int. with 266@.050 on the exhaust lobes installed at 106 ILC) ground on a 108 LSA. That car and motor made me very happy, made some money at the track and had a lot of fun with it on the street
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 09/07/20 10:10 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Locked out distributor
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2818458
09/08/20 10:04 AM
09/08/20 10:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
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I ended up making a stock Mopar low deck electronic distributer work very well in my old pump gas Duster by shortening up the advance slots so it had right at 18 crankshaft degrees of mechanical advance, which is nine distributor degrees, all in by 1200 RPM. It would start well and idle at 850 RPM in gear with 16 degrees BTDC, a fairly big solid roller cam (260@.050 int. with 266@.050 on the exhaust lobes installed at 106 ILC) ground on a 108 LSA. That car and motor made me very happy, made some money at the track and had a lot of fun with it on the street I don't doubt it, Cab. Id probably be fine w an advance curve too, but I need a guru like yourself to get it all dialed in!
2 kids and a dog
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Re: Locked out distributor
[Re: DrCharles]
#2818507
09/08/20 12:17 PM
09/08/20 12:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,159 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,159
Bend,OR USA
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Back then I used a pair(the thinnest, weakest set) of springs from a Mr. Gasket kit, I don't remember the kit number now though Those springs would pull the advance weights back under 1100 RPM and be at full advance by 1300 RPM which made the motor start well and t was like having the distributor lock out almost. It took me a while to figure out how much initial to set that motor up with so it would idle well and not kick back on the starter, it would start to kick back at 18 BTDC would really kick back at 20 BTDC 13 BTDC or less made it not idle well
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Locked out distributor
[Re: Since1822]
#2818656
09/08/20 05:15 PM
09/08/20 05:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,551 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,551
Fulton County, PA
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I've never done this, but these discussions usually make me think.
If a person was trying to thread that needle, get the engine to spin and fire at one RPM and timing setting, then have the ignition go to near total or total when it starts so the dumb thing will idle and respond... why not use distributor advance flyweight weights to adjust it?
Springs only give you a few options. Weight changes can be infinite. They do it with clutches.
Add a dab of spot weld with a MIG out on the heavy end of the weight. Get too much you can grind it off. Or drill and tap some machine screw holes and add screws and washers. More weight should bring advance in quicker. Keep the flyweights equal.
I would want to do this on a distributor machine. Probably be a PIA trying to do it on an engine.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Locked out distributor
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2818697
09/08/20 07:03 PM
09/08/20 07:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,646 Ringtown, Pa.
Dartsport540
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,646
Ringtown, Pa.
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TonyS451 I sent you a PM. easier to talk on phone than type it out.
548 cu. in., Bill Mitchell Aluminum Block, CRT 727 auto trans, Alston Chassis. 8.981et at 149.46 mph. 1.204et - 60 foot, So Far....
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Re: Locked out distributor
[Re: TonyS451]
#2818762
09/08/20 09:49 PM
09/08/20 09:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,454 Glendora Ca.
Just-a-dart
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,454
Glendora Ca.
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Tony I fought with this a few years ago after changing to a digital 6 plus box from a old analog 6AL. Mine would kick back on the starter about 1 in 4 starts.
With the digital 6 box and HVC coil I had NO improvements just shorter cap and rotor life and shorter plug life on a indy headed 12:1 427cu in small block on e85.
I went back to the analog MSD 6AL stating issue went away, cap and rotor life improved, same ET and MPH. My personal opinion is the Digital 6 box is a POS.
Try something else
"Just a Bracket car dressed up like a streetcar"
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Re: Locked out distributor
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2818782
09/08/20 11:08 PM
09/08/20 11:08 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220 West Plains, MO
DrCharles
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
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I guess every engine combo is different as to what it "likes". My 451 (currently iron-head 10.3:1) doesn't fight the starter hot until 24 degrees initial. So I ended up with one super-light spring, and one OEM heavy spring with loop in an OEM reluctor-pickup distributor. This cranks at about 16 initial for easy starting, immediately goes to 27 at idle (1100-1200 rpm), then a slow increase to 35@4000 (as high as I've checked). The rotor tower is an 11/22 degree unit, so max advance is limited to 16+22 = 38 Since I drive it on the street, I also use vacuum advance, something like 15 extra degrees at a 15" Hg. cruise. Obviously not a factor at starting or WOT.
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Re: Locked out distributor
[Re: Just-a-dart]
#2818840
09/09/20 09:22 AM
09/09/20 09:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
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Tony I fought with this a few years ago after changing to a digital 6 plus box from a old analog 6AL. Mine would kick back on the starter about 1 in 4 starts.
With the digital 6 box and HVC coil I had NO improvements just shorter cap and rotor life and shorter plug life on a indy headed 12:1 427cu in small block on e85.
I went back to the analog MSD 6AL stating issue went away, cap and rotor life improved, same ET and MPH. My personal opinion is the Digital 6 box is a POS.
Try something else I've had a couple others say the say thing.. I do have a 6al sitting around... Did you also use the separate starter saver?
2 kids and a dog
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Re: Locked out distributor
[Re: TonyS451]
#2818900
09/09/20 11:06 AM
09/09/20 11:06 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
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What affects "fighting the starter": CCP Flywheel or converter weight (actually inertial mass) Number of cylinders Rod ratio There is also another "RPM vs. spark position" in addition to centrifugal with vs. spring tension: tha shape of the weight. Examine a GM (easier to find) plot of engine speed vs curve and you'll notice that the curve is distorted (made non-linear) by the point where the weight’s concave radius contacts the center plate, which changes as the weights move. The weight normally acts against the gradually tapered side of the center plate. However, at very high RPM it continues to advance at a much slower rate, which may not be detected but may be enough to cause damage.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Locked out distributor
[Re: TonyS451]
#2819038
09/09/20 05:58 PM
09/09/20 05:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,454 Glendora Ca.
Just-a-dart
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,454
Glendora Ca.
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I've had a couple others say the say thing.. I do have a 6al sitting around... Did you also use the separate starter saver? No I didn't, my combo did not care care, normally locked out at 34btc.
"Just a Bracket car dressed up like a streetcar"
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