Re: Fast car, slow ET?
[Re: AndyF]
#2808729
08/14/20 07:30 AM
08/14/20 07:30 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,675 On the parachute mount
n20mstr
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master
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On the parachute mount
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Soft 60 foot. Car is relatively light. Good MPH Sounds like convertor might be knocking 60 foot out of it. Too tight? Converter could be too tight, I don't really know how to figure that out given the info I have. He has the transbrake set at 5800 which seems like an okay number. Once I see the dyno sheets I'll have a better idea of where the torque curve is but 5800 seems like it should be in the fat part of the curve for a 540 engine. The car doesn't push thru the lights so the converter isn't super tight. I'm not sure where the stall speed is since the car doesn't have a driveshaft speed sensor. I think he shifts the car at 6600 rpm which seems a bit low for a 540 with good parts but once again, I haven't seen dyno sheets so I don't know where the power peak is. He did say the car went faster when he shifted at 6300 so maybe 6600 is a touch too high. 5800? sounds like the converter is way too loose , just from that. If this converter was too loose, it would pick up in the 60" AND MPH. Get with a good converter company. My deal is totally different, but my converter goes to 2900-3100 with NO chip or limiter. What size is the converter and what company?? My buddy has a nova, 3600lbs. With a 565 it goes 9.30's at 142-144. 60' are in the 1.30 range Heck, my sons car going low 11's 60 in the 1.40's Almost any change I make to my car...I get the converter looked at and sometimes changed.
Last edited by n20mstr; 08/14/20 07:33 AM.
....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
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Re: Fast car, slow ET?
[Re: justinp61]
#2808755
08/14/20 09:12 AM
08/14/20 09:12 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,835 MI, usa
dvw
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I would've never bet my car needed a converter as loose as it is. 15-1, 572, 3300lbs, 4.30 gear, 10.5x31, 727 , 2.45 1st gear. It's been quickest with 6000-6200 fall back. Doug
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Re: Fast car, slow ET?
[Re: dvw]
#2808764
08/14/20 09:42 AM
08/14/20 09:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,496 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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Are the engine build specs/details available? CR, heads, intake, carb, header size, cam, etc?
See if the combo makes sense that it “should” be making 850hp.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Fast car, slow ET?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2808799
08/14/20 10:49 AM
08/14/20 10:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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What transmission is in it? Assume its a glide. For 140 the car should be much quicker than it is, easy 9.50's and if everything worked right 9.40's. Which makes that 60' even more horrific. A converter in a glide is a pretty critical part of the equation. I would also want to look at what shocks it has and how that ladder bar is installed. Maybe the car is just fighting itself off the line, but I would be VERY surprised if that converter was even close for the combo.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Fast car, slow ET?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2808909
08/14/20 03:38 PM
08/14/20 03:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,021 Oregon
AndyF
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What transmission is in it? Assume its a glide. For 140 the car should be much quicker than it is, easy 9.50's and if everything worked right 9.40's. Which makes that 60' even more horrific. A converter in a glide is a pretty critical part of the equation. I would also want to look at what shocks it has and how that ladder bar is installed. Maybe the car is just fighting itself off the line, but I would be VERY surprised if that converter was even close for the combo. It does have a glide in the car. I talked to the transmission builder and he said they aren't shifting the car high enough. He said the stall speed is around 6200 rpm behind that engine and they are shifting the car too low and so they are staying in the converter all the way down the track. He said to raise the shift speed to 7200 and let it fly. He also said that they had the two step set too high. He recommended setting the two step at 5300 so the converter will flash at the line. I'll pas the word on to the driver and see what happens.
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Re: Fast car, slow ET?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2808911
08/14/20 03:47 PM
08/14/20 03:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,021 Oregon
AndyF
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Are the engine build specs/details available? CR, heads, intake, carb, header size, cam, etc?
See if the combo makes sense that it “should” be making 850hp. I picked up the build sheet from the engine builder. It doesn't have all the specs but it fills in a few blanks. Dart aluminum block, Dart Pro 1 heads CNC, 4.500 x 4.250, Manley 697800 pistons (should be 13:1 compression) Comp 1302B/4247B 112 solid roller with 4/7 swap. Dart intake,1250 Dominator carb. T&D 1.70 rocker arms. Peterson 5 stage dry sump. Engine builder said it made 880 hp on the dyno with a wet sump then they changed to a dry sump and it wasn't put back on dyno but he assumes it makes roughly the same. Cam is a 4/7 swap so I want to confirm that the spark plugs wires are correct. Easy mistake to make that costs a bunch of power.
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Re: Fast car, slow ET?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2808913
08/14/20 03:58 PM
08/14/20 03:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,048 Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
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Here’s another thought.......
Is the cowl hood the “correct” distance from the windshield?
Attach a piece of string to the inside of the scoop, long enough to easily come out beyond the edge of the scoop. At the top end of the track, see it the string is sticking out of the scoop. It shouldn’t be, but if the scoop is too far away from the windshield, the inside of the scoop can be a low pressure area, instead of a high pressure area. If the string is being sucked out of the scoop, the scoop opening is a low pressure area. Exactly! Done this a few times before on different cars and always conclusive. This can speak to a good bit of what's missing but still there is something else major wrong if that's real the power/weight.
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Re: Fast car, slow ET?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2808921
08/14/20 04:25 PM
08/14/20 04:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,454 Glendora Ca.
Just-a-dart
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Glendora Ca.
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What transmission is in it? Assume its a glide. For 140 the car should be much quicker than it is, easy 9.50's and if everything worked right 9.40's. Which makes that 60' even more horrific. A converter in a glide is a pretty critical part of the equation. I would also want to look at what shocks it has and how that ladder bar is installed. Maybe the car is just fighting itself off the line, but I would be VERY surprised if that converter was even close for the combo. I agree with Al ! Probably a spragless too. He needs Data Car is kinda heavy for a glide + wrong converter + wrong launch RPM + wrong shift point = PIG
"Just a Bracket car dressed up like a streetcar"
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Re: Fast car, slow ET?
[Re: Just-a-dart]
#2808935
08/14/20 04:59 PM
08/14/20 04:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,711 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
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What transmission is in it? Assume its a glide. For 140 the car should be much quicker than it is, easy 9.50's and if everything worked right 9.40's. Which makes that 60' even more horrific. A converter in a glide is a pretty critical part of the equation. I would also want to look at what shocks it has and how that ladder bar is installed. Maybe the car is just fighting itself off the line, but I would be VERY surprised if that converter was even close for the combo. I agree with Al ! Probably a spragless too. He needs Data Car is kinda heavy for a glide + wrong converter + wrong launch RPM + wrong shift point = PIG Disagree about a big inch motor in a 3000 pound car with driver being even remotely too heavy for a powerglide. I just think in this case the guy missed on the convertor and maybe, as has been pointed out, launching the car, etc Heck they put stock glides in ultra heavy Impala’s and Caprice’s from the factory
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: Fast car, slow ET?
[Re: AndyF]
#2808972
08/14/20 06:15 PM
08/14/20 06:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 452 Monrovia, So-Cal, USA
racerhog
mopar
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mopar
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Monrovia, So-Cal, USA
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Not running hard enough to the 330'..... I think it needs a 400 and a different convertor.... Think it will pick up all the way around... Just my 2 cents..
Bob(Cowboy)Hogan Monrovia So-Cal
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Re: Fast car, slow ET?
[Re: plycuda]
#2808999
08/14/20 07:51 PM
08/14/20 07:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,496 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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but still there is something else major wrong if that's real the power/weight. Agreed.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Fast car, slow ET?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2809032
08/14/20 08:57 PM
08/14/20 08:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,021 Oregon
AndyF
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but still there is something else major wrong if that's real the power/weight. Agreed. Any thoughts on the camshaft choice? It seems "in the neighborhood" to me. Might not be perfect, but i don't think it is the problem or even part of the problem.
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Re: Fast car, slow ET?
[Re: AndyF]
#2809151
08/15/20 09:51 AM
08/15/20 09:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,496 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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Until the question about just how the converter is behaving is answered......it’s a little hard to gauge the effectiveness of the cam.
I’d say if the 60’ was noticeably worse foot braking vs the transbrake, then the cam and converter may not be on the same page.
The car performance is so far off the dyno numbers of the motor, it’s hard to know what to look at first. But that test might be revealing.
Be nice to see a dyno sheet to see how the curve looks.
Using my 90% rule....... at 880 STP corrected HP, it should be running 10mph faster.
The 140mph is showing what works out to a 28% loss.
It hasn’t been mentioned, but I’m assuming these runs aren’t being made at a higher altitude track.
One other thing..... does the car roll easily? No dragging brakes or trans binding up?
I guess if I had to start somewhere, I’d see about borrowing a known good carb and see if anything good came from that.
Do the footbrake vs trans brake test.
Then look at those results and see if it makes sense to try a different converter.
If after all that it was still showing way low on power, I’d have the motor tested somewhere else.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Fast car, slow ET?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2809167
08/15/20 10:49 AM
08/15/20 10:49 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,856 Pattison Texas
CSK
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Until the question about just how the converter is behaving is answered......it’s a little hard to gauge the effectiveness of the cam.
I’d say if the 60’ was noticeably worse foot braking vs the transbrake, then the cam and converter may not be on the same page.
The car performance is so far off the dyno numbers of the motor, it’s hard to know what to look at first. But that test might be revealing.
Be nice to see a dyno sheet to see how the curve looks.
Using my 90% rule....... at 880 STP corrected HP, it should be running 10mph faster.
The 140mph is showing what works out to a 28% loss.
It hasn’t been mentioned, but I’m assuming these runs aren’t being made at a higher altitude track.
One other thing..... does the car roll easily? No dragging brakes or trans binding up?
I guess if I had to start somewhere, I’d see about borrowing a known good carb and see if anything good came from that.
Do the footbrake vs trans brake test.
Then look at those results and see if it makes sense to try a different converter.
If after all that it was still showing way low on power, I’d have the motor tested somewhere else. On my post about the slow car of my friends, the carb we took off was the carb used to dyno it, but it sure did not work on the car at the track, & the 1st converter was WAY off. we still have a ways to go but it is MUCH better than it was
Last edited by csk; 08/15/20 10:53 AM.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Fast car, slow ET?
[Re: CSK]
#2809665
08/17/20 08:10 AM
08/17/20 08:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,361 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
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Everything is pointing to the converter being the issue IMO.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Fast car, slow ET?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2812554
08/24/20 12:32 PM
08/24/20 12:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,021 Oregon
AndyF
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but still there is something else major wrong if that's real the power/weight. Agreed. Pulled the valve covers and found a broken rocker arm. Got it fixed but it hasn't been back to the track yet.
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