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Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2791055
06/30/20 03:53 PM
06/30/20 03:53 PM
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Ambridge, Pa.
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rickraw Offline
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Everything looks real nice. I made my own studs from hardened all thread. Worked fine.

Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: rickraw] #2791062
06/30/20 04:09 PM
06/30/20 04:09 PM
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Originally Posted by rickraw
Everything looks real nice. I made my own studs from hardened all thread. Worked fine.


I'll do that if I can't find any but I like how APR studs have that necked down non-thread ends to help as you get them aligned.

Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2791391
07/01/20 09:59 AM
07/01/20 09:59 AM
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Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda Offline
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Wade,

If you know the length of the studs you want you can call or email ARP and they will tell you if they have them.

Summit's search engine filters also work pretty well when looking for studs.

Bill

Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2791557
07/01/20 03:33 PM
07/01/20 03:33 PM
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440Jim Offline
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Originally Posted by WadeMetzinger
Anyone know of a kit or where to pick up bell housing studs? Since it's an aluminum block, I'd rather put studs in the block to mount the tranny too (J&W Ultrabell) rather than using 3/8 bolts.

I found these on ARP's site, but they are for Top Fuel and 7/16 but didn't see any in 3/8 size:
APR bell housing studs

Will this ARP kit work for you?
Kit #: 245-0901 Stud Kit - Chevrolet, Chrysler KB Hemi, hex
Specifications
OAL 2.000˝
Thread Size 3/8˝
Nuts, washers included Socket Size(s) 7/16 12pt
Summit Link

Also available in stainless steel 445-0901


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: 440Jim] #2791562
07/01/20 03:45 PM
07/01/20 03:45 PM
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Another alternative:
Summit Racing Part Number:MIL-81520
Fastener Head Style:Flanged 12-point
Stud Length (in):2.000 in.
Thread Size:3/8-16 in.
Fastener Material:Chromoly
Fastener Finish:Black oxide
Quantity: Sold as a set of 6.
Summit Link - Milodon


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: 440Jim] #2791586
07/01/20 04:23 PM
07/01/20 04:23 PM
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Awesome Jim, I think that will work! Not sure why that kit didn't pull up on APR's site..

Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2791591
07/01/20 04:36 PM
07/01/20 04:36 PM
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Also found some lower cost alternatives, Summit says they are grade 8.
Dorman 675-004
2.125" OAL $13.99 set of 10
Double Ended Stud - 3/8-16 x 5/8 In. and 3/8-16 x 1 In, with 1/2" unthreaded
Link to Dorman web site 675-004

These might be more to your liking (if not paying for the nice ARP)
unthreaded tip Summit Link Dorman 675-115


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: 440Jim] #2791598
07/01/20 05:05 PM
07/01/20 05:05 PM
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North Carolina
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thanks jim. You just saved me the trouble of looking that up. For future knowledge the ARP specials dept is 805-525-1497. Sam Benson is the guy to ask for if he is still there. They have tons of stuff not in the catalogs if you ask the right person.
Todd

Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: sasquatch] #2793340
07/06/20 11:34 AM
07/06/20 11:34 AM
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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This weekend I got the cam installed and degreed in at 108.5 with Jessel belt system, .011 end play.

I got the heads installed and checked rocker arm geometry and measured for pushrods. Intake 3/8" diameter .120 wall and 9.704 over all length, ball to ball, 5/16 ball ends, Exhaust 7/6" diameter .095 wall and 9.671 over all length with 5/16 ball to ball ends. This was with .006 lash accounting for .010 - .015 growth for aluminum block and heads.

I also noticed that the side spacing on the T&D rockers weren't the same so I measured them. They varied from .014 to .065 so I've got a call into them to find out what space they recommend so I can adjust with shims. I'm guessing they will want .020 or less. The .065 will let a lot of oil out and may starve #1 since it's so far away from the supply.

I set the intake and spacers on to see how they aligned since we milled .040 off the head to increase compression. They seemed to still align pretty good but i did order some .030 intake gaskets to see if they will help align even better.

Also took measurements of the valley tray bolt and the intake bolts so I could get them ordered. 1/4x20 at 3/4" length for valley tray and 3/8x16 at 2.5" length for intake bolts.

The tranny studs came in and they look like they are going to work nicely, i didn't realize the KB blocks had both Chevy and Mopar bolt patterns, that will offer a few other options.

Next I'm going to figure out where to have the #8 oil drain back fittings welded to the oil pan, i'm running the Milodon 31161 9QT pan chassis/dragster pan with the dual line swinging pick up and there isn't a lot of room for the fitting above the oil level and the windage tray so I'm stressing a little about that at the moment.

Hoping to be ready for the dyno in the next 2 weeks. I'm hoping for 900hp but realistically expecting 850-875hp.

Motor almost.jpgT&D Rocker.jpgIntake geometry.jpgExhaust Geometry.jpg
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2793343
07/06/20 11:39 AM
07/06/20 11:39 AM
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Pic of the tranny studs, they aren't in the right hole, just checking fitness, also screwed in the ARP dowel pins

KB Bellhousing.jpg
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2793381
07/06/20 12:33 PM
07/06/20 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by WadeMetzinger
Pic of the tranny studs, they aren't in the right hole, just checking fitness, also screwed in the ARP dowel pins

Let us know if the tranny studs are long enough. I think you are using a JW Ultra bell (thick) and a mid-plate?
And can you tell me the coarse thread length, fine thread length, quick start end length. Catalog says 2.0" overall length.


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: 440Jim] #2793418
07/06/20 01:40 PM
07/06/20 01:40 PM
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ARP replied to my online inquiry quickly. This is their reply:
Quote
Hi Jim,

Thanks for the inquiry.

.200” nose
.550” coarse
.800” fine

So this picture is my interpretation of that, assuming exactly 2.0" overall length. (pic is a different stud).

Trans_studs_ARP245-0901.jpg
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: 440Jim] #2793468
07/06/20 03:00 PM
07/06/20 03:00 PM
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Tulsa, Ok
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My picture isn't as pretty as yours is but here is a pic with the measurements I took with dial calipers. I included the tapering up to the flat spoton the course side since it will engage into the block that far.

Tranny Stud.jpg
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2793576
07/06/20 06:33 PM
07/06/20 06:33 PM
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That agrees within est of thread start/stop.
I worry it will be close with a midplate (0.25") and JW bell (0.75"?)


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: 440Jim] #2796154
07/13/20 01:22 PM
07/13/20 01:22 PM
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Installed the lifters, pushrods, rockers and adjusted the valve to .006.(assuming they will grow .010 to .015 when hot)

Installed the intake and spacers, since I milled .040 off the heads I swapped out 1 set of the .060 gaskets with a set of .030 and everything lined up perfectly.

Installed the oil pump drive and checked engagement of the distributor shaft and test fitted the Milodon oil pump and Muscle Motor pump cover.

Cut holes in the valve covers for the evac breathers and also installed baffles. No room for a vacuum pump so have to keep using old school evac system through the headers. (Alternator and Enderle fuel pump take up all the room up front)

Installed new cap and rotor and set up the wires (also swapped #4 and #7 for the cam).

Oil pan is getting 2 #8 bungs welded onto it for oil drain back from the heads, should be ready this week so I can pre-oil it.

APD 1275 Max Speed gas carb should be in the mail this week, will be using Renegade 112 race fuel.

I was hoping to dyno this week but it looks like it will be the week after the Topeka NHRA double divisional. A buddy of mine is letting me wheel his 1967 Camaro in SST. It's a beautiful all steel, all glass car that has been in their family for 50 years. Big Block Chevy 582” makes around 1,100hp but the car weighs a ton, like 3,400+ lbs.

Motor Almost 1.jpgMotor Almost 2.jpgMotor Almost 3.jpgCamaro.jpg
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2796253
07/13/20 05:40 PM
07/13/20 05:40 PM
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Sydney,Australia
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wow the motor looks great , camaro not so bad either


Tex


New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: tex013] #2796425
07/14/20 10:04 AM
07/14/20 10:04 AM
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Las Vegas
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Looking good..Id try really hard to find a home for a vacuum pump myself. I know things can get tight but gotta be a way. We have a dry sump, vac pump and alternator hanging on mine with extremely narrow frame rails. Tight but it all works.

Nice Camaro, I to have a 68 Camaro with an BBC in it that I have threatened to run in S/ST more than once. It is a true street car though and just have never bothered to put a diaper on it.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: Al_Alguire] #2799336
07/21/20 12:00 PM
07/21/20 12:00 PM
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Got the oil pan on and routed the oil lines.

Pre-oiled the motor and took oil pressure readings from 2 different places, 1 from the back top/bellhousing area and then from the side, the main oil galley. 440Jim did this as well and told me that the back top oil pressure was down because how it was restricted as that oil is after all the mains are oiled and they the oil goes to the outside of #5 cam bearing and and then to the back top port which is also when/where the lifter oil galley is supplied (the cam bearings are oiled from the mains so they are 2nd in line after the mains.

I use an old corded 1/2" drill that only spins at 900rpm and got 50lbs on the top back port and 75lbs on the side main galley port.

I then switched to my Milwaukee cordless which spins around 1,800rpm and it immediately pegged my 80psi oil pressure gauge. (I haven't check the top oil port with the faster drill yet)

I didn't use the lifter galley oil restrictors per 440Jims recommendation and it looks to be a good decision.

Now just waiting on the Carb and shooting for Dyno Friday, JULY 31st.

Anyone want to make any HP/TQ predictions?

Inkedoiling 1_LI.jpgInkedoiling 2_LI.jpg
Last edited by WadeMetzinger; 07/27/20 09:18 AM.
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2799410
07/21/20 02:29 PM
07/21/20 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by WadeMetzinger
I use an old corded 1/2" drill that only spins at 900rpm and got 50lbs on the top back port and 75lbs on the side main galley port.

I then switched to my Milwaukee cordless which spins around 1,800rpm and it immediately pegged my 80psi oil pressure gauge. (I haven't check the top oil port with the faster drill yet)

I didn't use the lifter galley oil restrictors per 440Jims recommendation and it looks to be a good decision.
I think KB didn't machine the groove around the cam bearing deep enough on mine. Ken said he was surprised by my oil pressure (with the slow drill); 70 psi mains, and only 13 at the lifter galley. But the oil flow to my heads (via pushrods) was enough as I watched it on the engine stand. Engine worked great (only pushrod oiling to the Indy 440-1 heads, T&D paired rockers).

KB_oil_pressure1a_zps920f8658.jpg

1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2799643
07/22/20 08:21 AM
07/22/20 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by WadeMetzinger

Anyone want to make any HP/TQ predictions?

Time for the guessing game!
Sounds fairly mild for a B1 build:

508 CID (4.360” x 4.25” stroke), 12.46 CR,
392 cfm Koffel porting, 276/288 deg at 0.050", 0.767”/0.767” cam


I hope it makes more, but I am guessing 958 hp at 7200 rpm. (rpm due to only 508 CID)

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