Alternator options
#2783205
06/09/20 12:54 PM
06/09/20 12:54 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,444 Martinsville, IN
cdwmotorsports
OP
pro stock
|
OP
pro stock
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,444
Martinsville, IN
|
I have decided to step away from carbs and put a Holley fuel injection kit in my Demon. I currently have a 451 and its in the car with AndyF's engine plate. I also have a powermaster alternator low mounted with his kit. I presume I'm at or close enough to the max output of that alt to exceed it with a FI setup. SO what options do I have? I would like to keep the alternator low mounted if possible preferably retaining Andy's low mount kit.
eBay-cdwmotorsports
|
|
|
Re: Alternator options
[Re: cdwmotorsports]
#2783216
06/09/20 01:19 PM
06/09/20 01:19 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
|
I bought and used a Powermaster 100 amp one wire GM style for my bracket car It is mounted down low on the passenger side of the motor plate. What brand is yours ?
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/09/20 10:08 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
|
|
|
Re: Alternator options
[Re: AndyF]
#2783467
06/09/20 11:25 PM
06/09/20 11:25 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
|
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
|
I’m in the midst of an alternator upgrade right now. At the advice of a racer buddy that owns an alternator shop, I’m going with a Denso alternator.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
|
|
|
Re: Alternator options
[Re: AndyF]
#2783525
06/10/20 07:14 AM
06/10/20 07:14 AM
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
|
I have purchased and owned a lot of alternators over the years. I will say, do not believe everything they print in catalogues about their fancy alternators. Many manufacturers make claims that just aren't true....Had more than one argument with big name brand "Sales" artists...I won't bore you with all the details.....But I will give you a link to the best 1-wire alternators to date I have found: https://www.cvfracing.com/search/searchresults/?search_query=alternatorIf you want an alternator that can do double duty, and keep up with all the electrical load of dual fans, elec water pump, fuel pump and four head lights...Purchase one of their 140amp alternators....Hands down, charges at idle with a hell of a load on it....At 10 or 11 pounds, these kick but at low rpm compared to anything else I have run. Highly recommend them.
Last edited by Dragula; 06/10/20 07:15 AM.
|
|
|
Re: Alternator options
[Re: Dragula]
#2783534
06/10/20 08:18 AM
06/10/20 08:18 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 941 Texas, USA
ChrgrCuda
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 941
Texas, USA
|
Following this thread as I also have a Holley Sniper and dual electric fans and I'm dropping below 12 volts at idle when the fans kick in with a 100 amp 1 wire alternator.
68 Cuda Notchback [Email]10.86@120[/Email]
69 Charger R/T 440/505
2009 Challenger SRT8
|
|
|
Re: Alternator options
[Re: Dragula]
#2783558
06/10/20 09:32 AM
06/10/20 09:32 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 941 Texas, USA
ChrgrCuda
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 941
Texas, USA
|
I have purchased and owned a lot of alternators over the years. I will say, do not believe everything they print in catalogues about their fancy alternators. Many manufacturers make claims that just aren't true....Had more than one argument with big name brand "Sales" artists...I won't bore you with all the details.....But I will give you a link to the best 1-wire alternators to date I have found: https://www.cvfracing.com/search/searchresults/?search_query=alternatorIf you want an alternator that can do double duty, and keep up with all the electrical load of dual fans, elec water pump, fuel pump and four head lights...Purchase one of their 140amp alternators....Hands down, charges at idle with a hell of a load on it....At 10 or 11 pounds, these kick but at low rpm compared to anything else I have run. Highly recommend them. Which alternator did you choose from CVF? And would I need more than a 100 amp for electric fuel pump, Sniper, and dual electric fans?
68 Cuda Notchback [Email]10.86@120[/Email]
69 Charger R/T 440/505
2009 Challenger SRT8
|
|
|
Re: Alternator options
[Re: ChrgrCuda]
#2783616
06/10/20 11:54 AM
06/10/20 11:54 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,997 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,997
Oregon
|
Following this thread as I also have a Holley Sniper and dual electric fans and I'm dropping below 12 volts at idle when the fans kick in with a 100 amp 1 wire alternator.
That doesn't surprise me. Check your alternator output with a clamp on ammeter and see what it is putting out at idle. I bet it isn't producing anything close to 100 amps at idle. Maybe only 20 or 30 amps. It isn't uncommon for one wire alternators to struggle at idle.
|
|
|
Re: Alternator options
[Re: AndyF]
#2783628
06/10/20 12:15 PM
06/10/20 12:15 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 941 Texas, USA
ChrgrCuda
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 941
Texas, USA
|
Following this thread as I also have a Holley Sniper and dual electric fans and I'm dropping below 12 volts at idle when the fans kick in with a 100 amp 1 wire alternator.
That doesn't surprise me. Check your alternator output with a clamp on ammeter and see what it is putting out at idle. I bet it isn't producing anything close to 100 amps at idle. Maybe only 20 or 30 amps. It isn't uncommon for one wire alternators to struggle at idle. I have to get it up to about 1800 RPM's to get it back up 12.3 volts when the fans are running.
68 Cuda Notchback [Email]10.86@120[/Email]
69 Charger R/T 440/505
2009 Challenger SRT8
|
|
|
Re: Alternator options
[Re: AndyF]
#2783630
06/10/20 12:19 PM
06/10/20 12:19 PM
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
|
My new fans pull over 20 amps each + 8 amps for fuel pump + 1amp/1000rpm ignition + 8 amp water pump, plus 4 headlights pulling 5 amps each.....Still 13 volts at idle...A 100 amp was not doing it for me anymore, and I have tried all kinds of alternators on my cars.....These guys build an awesome 1-wire 140 amp alternator... The Chrysler alternators, always blow apart on me, the chevy style ones are sometimes tough to excite them into working at low rpm, and then get enough amperage out of them.....Only brand I have not tried is the MSD one.... https://www.cvfracing.com/search/searchresults/?search_query=alternatorHere's another way I can put it.....How many batteries do you think I run in the car with a 605 Hemi that's almost 12:1 compression and all the electronics listed above plus Holley efi and a Pro-dash?
Last edited by Dragula; 06/10/20 12:22 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Alternator options
[Re: Dragula]
#2783795
06/10/20 05:23 PM
06/10/20 05:23 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021
Tulsa OK
|
I run a GM CS130, they are supposed to be around 110amps. Runs all my stuff and has a rock steady output, the voltage lines on my data logs show almost no change.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
|
|
|
Re: Alternator options
[Re: Bad340fish]
#2783906
06/10/20 09:50 PM
06/10/20 09:50 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.
Mattax
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
|
You all need to understand that alternators ability to produce power increases dramatically from the 'turn on' rpm. Whenever a manufacturer provides an amp 'rating' its almost always for an alternator spinning close at a speed it will produce maximum output. There is no standard, so they can play various games with the 'ratings' and we have no way to compare. A few things to check into. Make sure the pulley ratio is spinning the alternator quick enough at idle. Make sure the rotor has good wiring to it. A Chrysler roundback can pull from 2 to over 3 amps when full fielded. Some later Chrysler's pull 5 to 7 amps. Check the specs and make sure the wiring size and connections are adequate. AC Delco used to have some graphics of the max outputs for some of the GM alternators Shows the shape and gives a good comparison within the brand and product line. Notice that is 'generator' shaft speed, not engine speed. (GM didn't accept the term 'alternator' as it came from their competitors) Also notice this graph indicates amperage at 14 Volts. Chrysler shop manual tests were usually 15 Volts (tougher test) and many claims are made by using 12 Volts, which makes the output look higher.
|
|
|
Re: Alternator options
[Re: Mattax]
#2783969
06/11/20 06:36 AM
06/11/20 06:36 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 759 Southington Ct.
turbobitt
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 759
Southington Ct.
|
I just installed a FAST XFI in my challenger and with dual electric fans and the draw from a good sized electric fuel pump the 60 amp alternator wasn't enough to charge at idle and low RPM. I wanted to try and maintain the stock look so I put in a Tuff Stuff 130 amp factory wire style externally regulated alternator. They say it should be good for 50% charging capacity at idle so being roughly double of what I had I figured it would be good. Well with both electric fans on it still drops to about 12.2 at idle and will jump up to 14.1 just off idle. I am now considering overdriving it a little more with a different pully arrangement. AG.
1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy.
1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno.
1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
|
|
|
Re: Alternator options
[Re: fbs63]
#2783972
06/11/20 07:27 AM
06/11/20 07:27 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
Out of curiosity what is max RPM you want to spin an alternator? Where are you measuring the RPM... at the alt or the crank I have run my alt on the race car at 8500 crank rpm it has been to 9600 rpm,, that is with a slightly under driven set up
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 06/11/20 07:35 AM.
|
|
|
Re: Alternator options
[Re: fbs63]
#2784001
06/11/20 09:11 AM
06/11/20 09:11 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
If you looked at the GM chart they show 12K at the gen/alt.. I know I use to test them at 10K+.. a ford buddy use to blow up his alt at a much lower crank rpm.. he blew up 2 alts where the fields whould come unglued but I dont know his ratio
|
|
|
Re: Alternator options
[Re: turbobitt]
#2784024
06/11/20 10:12 AM
06/11/20 10:12 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.
Mattax
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
|
I put in a Tuff Stuff 130 amp factory wire style externally regulated alternator. They say it should be good for 50% charging capacity at idle so being roughly double of what I had That's a BS answer from Tuff Stuff. They ought to be able to provide an output curve. Unless they are just slapping parts in and have no test equipment. Lets hope not. Changing components to produce a higher output can compromise the low rpm output. This is another reason why the 'ratings' are somewhat useless for selecting an alternator. This is from the sameAC Delco catalog that used to be on-line. if your alternator is on the car, you can measure the output under various conditions using a DC inductive ammeter. A Sun VAT40 is a good tool for that as it has a carbon pile, ammeter and voltmeter, etc. But a lot of modern multimeters and scopes also can be equiped with an inductive clamp for current measurement. Without an external load, you can also measure the total load by turning everything on while running on battery. Put the clamp on the battery negative for that one. Keep the test short - 15 second is plenty. On a classic setup, an alternator that could produce 5 amps more than the loads was considered OK. But for a setup laden with critical high current electric needs (EFI, Fans, Pumps) that rule of thumb might run the alternator duty cycle higher than ideal. (ie it will run hotter than it should for long life). Someone else will have to advise on that.
|
|
|
|
|