Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: new SFT for the 511 [Re: Thumperdart] #2781519
06/04/20 08:48 PM
06/04/20 08:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,786
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
master
mopar dave  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,786
Mt Morris Michigan
Your cam might work real nice in my combo too. I figured it’s more affordable to experiment with a flat tappet for now and I don’t think I’m leaving a lot on the table. Rollers will be have to be later.

Re: new SFT for the 511 [Re: mopar dave] #2781584
06/05/20 01:31 AM
06/05/20 01:31 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 35,134
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 35,134
Bend,OR USA
My old pump gas Duster (511 C .I.) had a Comp Cams solid roller ground for Benshoff (SP?) racing in WI, it was 260@.050 with .420 lobe lift on the intake and 266 @.050 on the exhaust with .409 lobe lift(EDITED ground on a 108 LSA in at 107 ILC)with 1.65 H.S. roller rocker, that cam pulled really hard up past 7800 RPM in second gear before I got scared and shifted it. I shifted it between 7000 and 7300 RPM all the time, it ran really good and was easy on parts boogie That cam with the low deck six pack made peak torque at 4500 RPM and peak HP at 500 RPM but ran faster at the track shifting at or above 7000 RPM shock shruggy
290@.050 sounds like Pro Stock hemi cams down

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/07/20 04:56 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: new SFT for the 511 [Re: Cab_Burge] #2781607
06/05/20 08:41 AM
06/05/20 08:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,786
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
master
mopar dave  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,786
Mt Morris Michigan
I agree, just want to throw that out there because they were so addiment it was a badass cam in just about anything. I just got out of that over cam issue and i'm not falling back in any time soon. If my 511 was 14:1 compression, I may have given it a try just for giggles. They claimed it is a Herb McCandless design. I don't think it takes a cam over 270@50 to make good power in a 511. Sure would like to know the magic number thou.

Re: new SFT for the 511 [Re: mopar dave] #2781638
06/05/20 10:39 AM
06/05/20 10:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,343
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
I Live Here
ZIPPY  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,343
S.E. Michigan

We never seem to hear of anyone using a Comp .650 ft, or anything like a (seemingly fairly comparable? Although I know Herb would vehemently disagree) old MP .620 in a 500+ ci combination with more modern heads.....but I'd like to.
Just to see what happens. Maybe that's an awful combination? As much as it'd be interesting to see, I'd never suggest someone else be the guinea pig.

Oddly though many folks with those sort of combinations seem to love the old MP .590 But that's almost a no brainer as it seems to fall right into the duration ballpark alot of us are thinking will definitely work.

Good luck in your quest. Dwayne won't steer you wrong and he is just cool to talk to.





Rich H.
1969 Plymouth GTX
451ci B engine
11.02 at 123mph
NA, 93 octane E10 fuel, DOT tires, mufflers, no trailer
Direct Connection Tech Alumni '05 to '13
Learning without end, your influences, influencing others (all too often unknowingly until years after the fact) and the people you meet are the best part.
Re: new SFT for the 511 [Re: ZIPPY] #2781669
06/05/20 11:44 AM
06/05/20 11:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,786
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
master
mopar dave  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,786
Mt Morris Michigan
We have a gentleman here going low 9's on a SFT cam. I ordered the Ultradyne NF904 cam 267/271 NF63 NF64 lobes. Gonna see what a smaller flat tappet can do. Its always better to err on the too small side vs the too big side. Its real easy to get caught up in that bigger is better fallacy. My next cam will more than likely be a roller and something in the 270@50 range. I really like the looks of Doms cam and I may have more compression when I get to that point to make that really work. Lunati spec'd me a 278/288@50 .726/.726 108 which may work with more compression as well, also on my list. What I have learnt about comparing cams is you have to look at the .200 lift duration and not stop at the @50 number. You miss the whole story if you do. Cabs cam 260/266 would probably work nice with what I have now at 12.5:1.

Re: new SFT for the 511 [Re: ZIPPY] #2781681
06/05/20 12:11 PM
06/05/20 12:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,153
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts
AndyF  Offline
Too Many Posts
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,153
Oregon
Originally Posted by ZIPPY

We never seem to hear of anyone using a Comp .650 ft, or anything like a (seemingly fairly comparable? Although I know Herb would vehemently disagree) old MP .620 in a 500+ ci combination with more modern heads.....but I'd like to.
Just to see what happens. Maybe that's an awful combination? As much as it'd be interesting to see, I'd never suggest someone else be the guinea pig.

Oddly though many folks with those sort of combinations seem to love the old MP .590 But that's almost a no brainer as it seems to fall right into the duration ballpark alot of us are thinking will definitely work.




The old Comp 650 was designed by Herb for the cast iron heads that he was using back in the day. I seem to remember a long time ago that people tried using that cam when they switched to Indy heads and the results were not good. I ran into a little bit of the same issue with the Trick Flow heads on my 470 low deck. The TF heads flow so well at low lift that if you put too big of a cam in there it really kills the power. Dwayne and I talked that combo over a few times. I tried smaller cams and bigger cams in that engine and eventually we found the "just right" size. Too small worked better than too large for sure. Too large on the cam would kill the power down low but not add much up top. Too small added power down low but limited it up top. Just right would pull hard all the way.

The difference between too big and just right wasn't very much. The guy at Bullet was convinced that a 270 cam would work great in my 470 but it was a real dog. The cam that worked the best was 264/268 so not a lot of difference in numbers, but the difference on the dyno was very significant. The cam that was too small was 261. So it was just a few degrees difference plus the shape of the lobe. Dwayne figured out which was the best lobe shape for the TF heads. I roughly knew the correct duration but he figured out the lobe shape which was the key.

Last edited by AndyF; 06/05/20 12:15 PM.
Re: new SFT for the 511 [Re: AndyF] #2781708
06/05/20 12:36 PM
06/05/20 12:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,786
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
master
mopar dave  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,786
Mt Morris Michigan
Interesting to read. Andy your 470 ran best with the 264/268, 4* difference in lobes. My 511 and the new 267/271 also 4* difference and a few degrees more and not out of line with the few extra cubes should really shine. Tim over at Bullet is not the designer of this cam, It is a Harold Brookshire design. Tim said it was an old xs series Winston cup cam. It should do well, but will see.

Last edited by mopar dave; 06/05/20 12:41 PM.
Re: new SFT for the 511 [Re: mopar dave] #2781729
06/05/20 01:34 PM
06/05/20 01:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,982
Western NC
440Jim Offline
I Live Here
440Jim  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,982
Western NC
Originally Posted by mopar dave
Looking at 2 different cams to go with 2 different cam matching theories.
First theory is that first 330ft at track are the most important, so I would think a torquer cam would be best, so here it is. Ultradyne 294/298 267/271 650/620 108 lash .016/.016(@.200 lift 185/188) my current cam is 180/186@.200
My second theory is why would low end grunt matter because the vert stalls at 5400 and never drops below 6000 going down the track. So, here's that cam, Comp 324/324 290/290 650/650 108 lash .028/.026 (@.200 lift 200/200). I was told this is an old HM cam. Street/strip deal.
The 290 sounds way over cammed with 12.5:1 . Jim who goes real fast on flat tappets says nothing over 270@50 or its over cammed with 12.5:1 and i'm sure he's correct in this. Just thought I might get a few opinions on this as i'm really sold on the NF904 cam.

You are looking at specs that not everyone thinks about, and I agree. "(@.200 lift 185/188) my current cam is 180/186@.200"
Like I told you before, I like that Ultradyne for your application.
But ft you decide you want "Theory 2"; a better Comp Cam than that old 0.650"/0.650" is their more recent 0.650"/0.630" version:
Comp Cam link at Summit
Comp Cam link at Comp's web site
From my measurements, it is about 197/200 deg at 0.200" lobe lift. (for comparison)
But with 279/287 deg at 0.050"; I think that came needs more CR than you have for best results. I ran it with 13.5 CR back in the day.

The older 0.650/0.650 is about 200/200 at 0.200" lobe lift.


1993 Daytona, 1973 Cuda 440, 2009 Challenger 5.7 Hemi, 2015 RAM 1500 5.7 Hemi 8-speed auto
Re: new SFT for the 511 [Re: 440Jim] #2781747
06/05/20 01:59 PM
06/05/20 01:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,786
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
master
mopar dave  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,786
Mt Morris Michigan
Thanks Jim. I think Andy mentioned that cam in his book as being a good cam too. Do you think it hurts it at all being on a 110?

Re: new SFT for the 511 [Re: mopar dave] #2781750
06/05/20 02:02 PM
06/05/20 02:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,982
Western NC
440Jim Offline
I Live Here
440Jim  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,982
Western NC
Originally Posted by mopar dave
Thanks Jim. I think Andy mentioned that cam in his book as being a good cam too. Do you think it hurts it at all being on a 110?
IMO, once you get enough duration, like the MM 305S-10, the 110 LSA works fine.


1993 Daytona, 1973 Cuda 440, 2009 Challenger 5.7 Hemi, 2015 RAM 1500 5.7 Hemi 8-speed auto
Re: new SFT for the 511 [Re: mopar dave] #2781805
06/05/20 04:35 PM
06/05/20 04:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,982
Western NC
440Jim Offline
I Live Here
440Jim  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,982
Western NC
Originally Posted by mopar dave
... I’m using a 1.6 rocker on that too.
Remember, the Ultradyne NF lobe profile will need good springs with 1.6 rockers (especially the heavier intake valve). I also like the solid lifters with the EDM oil hole when running stiffer springs and trying to go high 6000's rpm with flat tappets. (Durability).


1993 Daytona, 1973 Cuda 440, 2009 Challenger 5.7 Hemi, 2015 RAM 1500 5.7 Hemi 8-speed auto
Re: new SFT for the 511 [Re: 440Jim] #2781823
06/05/20 05:34 PM
06/05/20 05:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,786
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
master
mopar dave  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,786
Mt Morris Michigan
Here’s my current springs I had Dwayne check out last winter. 135-137@1.900, 430@1.250, 453 rate and at 1.250 about .100 from coil bind. Tim thought I could use these same springs, but I was not 100% sure he was right. I’m also using titanium retainers with these springs. What do ya think?

Re: new SFT for the 511 [Re: mopar dave] #2781953
06/05/20 11:02 PM
06/05/20 11:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,144
State of confusion
T
Thumperdart Offline
I Live Here
Thumperdart  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,144
State of confusion
Originally Posted by mopar dave
I agree, just want to throw that out there because they were so addiment it was a badass cam in just about anything. I just got out of that over cam issue and i'm not falling back in any time soon. If my 511 was 14:1 compression, I may have given it a try just for giggles. They claimed it is a Herb McCandless design. I don't think it takes a cam over 270@50 to make good power in a 511. Sure would like to know the magic number thou.
And again I disagree about a 500+ci motor not needing more duration and although a Chevy my customers 11.7.1 comp. 572 pump gas Chevelle goes 8.40's n/a at 3450 lbs with a .750-.800 lift 282-293 cam. But this is how we ALL learn and maybe your motor doesn't want a bigger/more duration cam but I doubt it....


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: new SFT for the 511 [Re: Thumperdart] #2781960
06/05/20 11:25 PM
06/05/20 11:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,786
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
master
mopar dave  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,786
Mt Morris Michigan
Yeah, all I can say is every combo is different. I know most of my bubbies have chevys and they just throw a big cam in and go fast. Wish I was that lucky. I still think these mw heads are making it more complicated than it needs to be to get the ideal cam. Something not right with the way they flow or the port shape, I don't get it. Normally I would throw a 275ish 680 0r 700 cam in it and be happy. My hunch is that the smaller @50 cam I ordered will work good with these heads as the added compression did. I will find out and have a better idea what size roller to throw in when the time comes.

Re: new SFT for the 511 [Re: mopar dave] #2782106
06/06/20 01:01 PM
06/06/20 01:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,144
State of confusion
T
Thumperdart Offline
I Live Here
Thumperdart  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,144
State of confusion
And again, my crappy RPM's happily accept and fly imo with a .680.660 276-281 Solid Isky roller......


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: new SFT for the 511 [Re: Thumperdart] #2782264
06/06/20 09:12 PM
06/06/20 09:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,786
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
master
mopar dave  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,786
Mt Morris Michigan
I agree Dom, your combo is a good one for sure. I think your standard port is the key. I bet the head has fantastic velocity, something my head don’t.

Re: new SFT for the 511 [Re: mopar dave] #2782357
06/07/20 11:46 AM
06/07/20 11:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,144
State of confusion
T
Thumperdart Offline
I Live Here
Thumperdart  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,144
State of confusion
There is a fine line between velocity and volume so in my world and in your case I'd cam it up, loosen the vert and leave as high/hard as the tires will take......


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: new SFT for the 511 [Re: Thumperdart] #2782529
06/07/20 08:27 PM
06/07/20 08:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,786
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
master
mopar dave  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,786
Mt Morris Michigan
With a few adjustments, I think it will go in the 9's as is and this is a full interior street car, carpet and all. As far as camshaft goes, It will get the new SLT first and then a larger solid roller and we will all see how it does. I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised with both.

Page 2 of 2 1 2




Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1