Roller rockers not hitting center of valve tip
#2775241
05/16/20 08:57 PM
05/16/20 08:57 PM
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Dave_J
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On my 410 stroker mag 5.9 I have Edelbrock Magnum heads with the Chevy rocker studs and am installing the stamped steel type chrome moly roller rockers. I have on hand two pushrods and tryng to find where the rocker tip will strike the valve stem. With a 6.95" it pushes the roller out to the outter part of the stem. The other is a 7.50" and it does move the roller more center but still on the outer part of the stem. I know I may need a set between the 0.55" difference.
The 6.95" has the Lock nut turned all the way down, the Poly-lock is sticking up and the pushrod is too loose so I know I need a longer one.
The 7.500" puts the tip in a better place but the Lock nut is only 7 turns down. Once I get the preload on the Hyd lifter I ran the lobe up and it did push the valve down the 0.565" lift of my Luniti cam and a 1.6:1 rocker. The base circle of this cam is shorter that the stock 5.2 cam. Picture below is the roll pattern on the valve stem.
Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994 ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997 Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015
Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.
03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter 65 Formula S Cuda 78 Little Red Express Truck 98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
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Re: Roller rockers not hitting center of valve tip
[Re: dart9ss]
#2775261
05/16/20 10:01 PM
05/16/20 10:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,553 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
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Does Mike make his products for stud mounted rockers?
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Roller rockers not hitting center of valve tip
[Re: AndyF]
#2775300
05/17/20 02:52 AM
05/17/20 02:52 AM
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Dave_J
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Ordered adjustable pushrods two days ago.
It just seems I will run out of threads on the rocker stud before I can get the rocker roller centered. I'll check it in the AM
Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994 ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997 Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015
Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.
03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter 65 Formula S Cuda 78 Little Red Express Truck 98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
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Re: Roller rockers not hitting center of valve tip
[Re: dart9ss]
#2775309
05/17/20 07:02 AM
05/17/20 07:02 AM
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Posts: 9,996 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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try this without a pushrod. install the rocker as low on the stud as it will go. Check where the roller tip contacts the valve tip. It should be closer to the stud side of the valve tip. Move the rocker up a couple threads and see where it goes to. Keep doing this till you are to the center of the valve tip at contact/zero lift. The best location for the contact when the valve is closed will be half the distance of total roller tip travel that was observed on your photo, towards the rocker stud side. If you can't get there, the rockers are too long.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Roller rockers not hitting center of valve tip
[Re: Dave_J]
#2775465
05/17/20 03:31 PM
05/17/20 03:31 PM
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polyspheric
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Centered is less important than making the shortest contact sweep.
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Re: Roller rockers not hitting center of valve tip
[Re: gregsdart]
#2775472
05/17/20 04:07 PM
05/17/20 04:07 PM
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Dave_J
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try this without a pushrod. install the rocker as low on the stud as it will go. Check where the roller tip contacts the valve tip. It should be closer to the stud side of the valve tip. Move the rocker up a couple threads and see where it goes to. Keep doing this till you are to the center of the valve tip at contact/zero lift. The best location for the contact when the valve is closed will be half the distance of total roller tip travel that was observed on your photo, towards the rocker stud side. If you can't get there, the rockers are too long. I will try that. But as being too long, I don't know how that can be if the Edelbrock heads say for Chevy Adjustable Rockers. (see below picture) The Assualt Racing Product Rockers are 1.6 ratio Small Block Chevy (see 2nd picture below)
Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994 ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997 Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015
Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.
03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter 65 Formula S Cuda 78 Little Red Express Truck 98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
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Re: Roller rockers not hitting center of valve tip
[Re: Dave_J]
#2775487
05/17/20 04:49 PM
05/17/20 04:49 PM
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AndyF
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Not sure what to tell you other than sometimes certain aftermarket parts don't fit with other parts. Even if the instructions say they will fit. That might be the situation with these parts but I don't know for sure since I've never used them. Maybe call around and find an engine builder who uses those heads and ask what they use for rocker arms. Brian at IMM does a lot of SB stuff so he might know. Hughes Engines supplies a lot of SB parts so they might know which rockers work the best with those heads. Or start a different thread asking specifically about which rockers work best with those Magnum heads.
Last edited by AndyF; 05/17/20 04:50 PM.
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Re: Roller rockers not hitting center of valve tip
[Re: AndyF]
#2775508
05/17/20 05:27 PM
05/17/20 05:27 PM
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Dave_J
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Thanks all for the replies. I think I have it sorted now.
1. The Melling 5.2/5.9 roller rockers were pumping down more than what I THOUGHT. I had taken them apart and filled them with 15W40 oil but still .... I milled a aluminum spacer and replaced the spring inside the lifter so it is now a ridged 'Solid' lifter. No squish. That squish was about 0.0750"
2. My friend I had called just happened to have a couple 7.100" push rods and I borrowed them. Put them in and tightened the adjusters down till 0 lash and pulled them thru 2 full revs of the engine. Below is the patterens.
Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994 ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997 Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015
Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.
03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter 65 Formula S Cuda 78 Little Red Express Truck 98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
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Re: Roller rockers not hitting center of valve tip
[Re: Dave_J]
#2775521
05/17/20 05:55 PM
05/17/20 05:55 PM
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Posts: 10,553 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
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That looks better Dave Thanks a lot for posting this as I will be doing the Magnum assembly as soon as the heads get here. My customer chose the Comp Ultra-Pro Magnums so I hope everything goes well. I have to get a checking push rod for ball-ball applications but now at least I have a starting point and Summit stocks a ton of those Chevy type pushrods. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Roller rockers not hitting center of valve tip
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2775541
05/17/20 06:46 PM
05/17/20 06:46 PM
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Posts: 3,122 Auburn WA
Dave_J
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I watched so many YouTube vids. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5is9BsH5OUThe one with Ralph Johnson (Chevy, with Smokey Yunick and Crane Cams) is full of good info on what I was seeing. Last I knew Ralph is still kicking at around 98 years old. WARNING The music sucks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjaosX63DkMI went back out and ran the shorter 6.950" push rod and with my setup it is still fine but the pattern is very slightly on the inside (Intake side) of the valve stem so I will run these as I have a set. They are TrickFlow TFS-21406950 for guideplate. Bleed down of a Hyd lifter will mess with all measurements. I just cut down some alumumn bar stock to length and spun it in my drill till it fit inside the lifter where the hydrolic plunger is. The lifter cup was down about 0.025 " from the keeper spring. RockAuto has Enginetech L2167 stock replacement lifters for $547 each or $87.52 a set of 16 plus $8.99 shipping. These are the same as the "Made in Mexico" reboxed Melling lifters. Takes 30 minuets to take all 16 apart, empty out the kerosene shipping fluid and fill with 5W30 or 15W40 like I do
Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994 ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997 Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015
Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.
03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter 65 Formula S Cuda 78 Little Red Express Truck 98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
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Re: Roller rockers not hitting center of valve tip
[Re: Dave_J]
#2775544
05/17/20 07:13 PM
05/17/20 07:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206 New York
polyspheric
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Not trying to make things worse, but Chevy studs are not parallel to the valve stems, so moving the adjuster up & down also moves the Chevy rocker in & out...
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Re: Roller rockers not hitting center of valve tip
[Re: polyspheric]
#2775555
05/17/20 07:33 PM
05/17/20 07:33 PM
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Dave_J
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Not trying to make things worse, but Chevy studs are not parallel to the valve stems, so moving the adjuster up & down also moves the Chevy rocker in & out... Trying to figure that out in my head. So if E is the Exhaust manifold side and I is the Intake side, and the V is SPLAYED of the Valve stem and the stud.... E V I, the higher in that V the farther the rocker tip will move toward the intake side. But it did not do that for me. I know 'Trigonometry' is involved here. I'll have to go measure these heads. EDIT OK the angle is upside down V with the valve tip closer at the tip to the stud's top. I'd bet the angles cross a few inches above the head. The Edelbrock web site gives ZERO data on these heads. PissPoor help.
Last edited by Dave_J; 05/17/20 07:47 PM.
Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994 ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997 Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015
Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.
03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter 65 Formula S Cuda 78 Little Red Express Truck 98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
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