Re: To cold spark plugs?
[Re: Mopar493]
#2772082
05/07/20 12:15 PM
05/07/20 12:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287 West Coast, USA
jbc426
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From what I learned on the Four Seconds Flat web page about spark plug reading, we would need a better photo of the side of the spark plug so we can see the color change on the threads of the plug. There should be a color change on the first 3 or 4 threads starting at the end of the plug. From what I can see you only have a color change on the first thread. http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: To cold spark plugs?
[Re: jbc426]
#2772088
05/07/20 12:30 PM
05/07/20 12:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 138 Sweden
Mopar493
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From what I learned on the Four Seconds Flat web page about spark plug reading, we would need a better photo of the side of the spark plug so we can see the color change on the threads of the plug. There should be a color change on the first 3 or 4 threads starting at the end of the plug. From what I can see you only have a color change on the first thread. http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html Thanks for your answer! I have not any better photos now but thats the case, its not even a color change on the first thread, its slightly in front of the first thread so its to cold for sure and not hot enough to hold the plug clean. I also think the non projected tip is not good for this engine
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Re: To cold spark plugs?
[Re: Mopar493]
#2772111
05/07/20 02:12 PM
05/07/20 02:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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the engine runs great but slight misses on idle, the first thing I'd do is glass bead em to clean em up or toss in some new ones & see if that resolves the idle issue
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: To cold spark plugs?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2772119
05/07/20 02:48 PM
05/07/20 02:48 PM
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Mopar493
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the engine runs great but slight misses on idle, the first thing I'd do is glass bead em to clean em up or toss in some new ones & see if that resolves the idle issue Thanks for answer! Yes i will toss in one step hotter projected nose plug and see hows it look after some driving, i just wanted to see hows the engine respond to this non projected style but i think its not right style for the engine or atleast the heat range is to cold. It idles smoother with projected tip.
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Re: To cold spark plugs?
[Re: lewtot184]
#2772195
05/07/20 06:37 PM
05/07/20 06:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,704 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
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Looks fat. Is this after extended idle or being driven? Carb? Do the mixture screws respond? 7 might be a touch cold. Back it up to a 5 and see what it does.
I ran cold plugs for a long time in the race motor because that's what you're supposed to do. Wasn't happy with it. First pass was a throw away to get the plugs clean. Started experimenting and ended up with stock heat range plugs in it. Engine was happy.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: To cold spark plugs?
[Re: Mopar493]
#2772301
05/07/20 11:10 PM
05/07/20 11:10 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,298 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 05/07/20 11:11 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: To cold spark plugs?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2772305
05/07/20 11:24 PM
05/07/20 11:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2019
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Mopar493
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Do you think its oil? Im not loosing any oil anyway. Here is one photo of a plug when i drive 1 step hotter projected tip plug
Last edited by Mopar493; 05/07/20 11:26 PM.
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Re: To cold spark plugs?
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2772307
05/07/20 11:28 PM
05/07/20 11:28 PM
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Mopar493
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Looks fat. Is this after extended idle or being driven? Carb? Do the mixture screws respond? 7 might be a touch cold. Back it up to a 5 and see what it does.
I ran cold plugs for a long time in the race motor because that's what you're supposed to do. Wasn't happy with it. First pass was a throw away to get the plugs clean. Started experimenting and ended up with stock heat range plugs in it. Engine was happy. Yes it is after some idling.
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Re: To cold spark plugs?
[Re: lewtot184]
#2772308
05/07/20 11:31 PM
05/07/20 11:31 PM
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Mopar493
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why a non-projected tip? does it have flat top pistons? a 7 may be a little cool but I think it's too rich/poor burn-tune-up. Yes it is flat top pistons, i just wanted to try them out but the idle was smoother with projected tip
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Re: To cold spark plugs?
[Re: Mopar493]
#2772324
05/08/20 01:50 AM
05/08/20 01:50 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,298 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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If it shines it, the spark plug inside the combustion chamber, is oil, if it doesn't shine it has no oil It looks like oil to me
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 05/08/20 01:50 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: To cold spark plugs?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2772339
05/08/20 06:07 AM
05/08/20 06:07 AM
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Mopar493
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If it shines it, the spark plug inside the combustion chamber, is oil, if it doesn't shine it has no oil It looks like oil to me Yes i understand that but you see with hotter right heat range spark plugs there is no shining and i have not loose one drop in 400 miles so thats why i wonder with these colder plugs looking, If you have oil in the combustion its logic that you also loose some oil
Last edited by Mopar493; 05/08/20 06:18 AM.
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Re: To cold spark plugs?
[Re: Mopar493]
#2772356
05/08/20 07:53 AM
05/08/20 07:53 AM
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lewtot184
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why a non-projected tip? does it have flat top pistons? a 7 may be a little cool but I think it's too rich/poor burn-tune-up. Yes it is flat top pistons, i just wanted to try them out but the idle was smoother with projected tip the only reason I can think of to not use a projected tip is if you have a very intrusive dome on the piston. I use autolite 3926's and they seem to burn well for driving. an ngk 6 is close to the 3926 and ngk 5's are pretty hot. i'm not an autolite or ngk fan specifically so either can be made to work. i'd try cleaning up the a/f ratio first and make sure the timing is proper. that engine should make a lot of vacuum with that small cam and big cubes. high vacuum engines don't necessarily need more jet area. big 4bbl carbs don't always mix good at low rpm but that may not be an issue here. I don't see oil use but it looks like carbon crude from a poor burn. this modern gas can get gummy and cruddy.
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Re: To cold spark plugs?
[Re: lewtot184]
#2772400
05/08/20 10:47 AM
05/08/20 10:47 AM
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Mopar493
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why a non-projected tip? does it have flat top pistons? a 7 may be a little cool but I think it's too rich/poor burn-tune-up. Yes it is flat top pistons, i just wanted to try them out but the idle was smoother with projected tip the only reason I can think of to not use a projected tip is if you have a very intrusive dome on the piston. I use autolite 3926's and they seem to burn well for driving. an ngk 6 is close to the 3926 and ngk 5's are pretty hot. i'm not an autolite or ngk fan specifically so either can be made to work. i'd try cleaning up the a/f ratio first and make sure the timing is proper. that engine should make a lot of vacuum with that small cam and big cubes. high vacuum engines don't necessarily need more jet area. big 4bbl carbs don't always mix good at low rpm but that may not be an issue here. I don't see oil use but it looks like carbon crude from a poor burn. this modern gas can get gummy and cruddy. Thank you for your answer! I will try to put in ngk 6 projected tip and try to lean the carb a bit, i have a msd pro billet distributor now with the 6al system but im going to switch to a FBO distributor(Mopar original) with vacuum advance, i think thats better for the street. I have about 17 hg/inch vacuum at idle now but i believe that can be higher with a vacuum advanced distributor. FBO blueprinted one for me, 16 initial and full manifold vacuum that bring the timing to 30 at idle, mechanical full advance at 3200 rpm and 34 degrees.
Last edited by Mopar493; 05/08/20 10:50 AM.
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Re: To cold spark plugs?
[Re: Mopar493]
#2772466
05/08/20 01:47 PM
05/08/20 01:47 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
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lewtot184
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why a non-projected tip? does it have flat top pistons? a 7 may be a little cool but I think it's too rich/poor burn-tune-up. Yes it is flat top pistons, i just wanted to try them out but the idle was smoother with projected tip the only reason I can think of to not use a projected tip is if you have a very intrusive dome on the piston. I use autolite 3926's and they seem to burn well for driving. an ngk 6 is close to the 3926 and ngk 5's are pretty hot. i'm not an autolite or ngk fan specifically so either can be made to work. i'd try cleaning up the a/f ratio first and make sure the timing is proper. that engine should make a lot of vacuum with that small cam and big cubes. high vacuum engines don't necessarily need more jet area. big 4bbl carbs don't always mix good at low rpm but that may not be an issue here. I don't see oil use but it looks like carbon crude from a poor burn. this modern gas can get gummy and cruddy. Thank you for your answer! I will try to put in ngk 6 projected tip and try to lean the carb a bit, i have a msd pro billet distributor now with the 6al system but im going to switch to a FBO distributor(Mopar original) with vacuum advance, i think thats better for the street. I have about 17 hg/inch vacuum at idle now but i believe that can be higher with a vacuum advanced distributor. FBO blueprinted one for me, 16 initial and full manifold vacuum that bring the timing to 30 at idle, mechanical full advance at 3200 rpm and 34 degrees. i know Don at FBO likes full manifold vacuum for the vacuum advance, I don't; unless the vacuum is so low you need the extra advance at low rpm. I wouldn't do that with as high of vacuum as your engine is making. I bet that engine is making a bunch of low to mid rpm cylinder pressure with that cam closing the intake valve so early and this could lead to some detonation. don't be afraid to try the timed port. those vacuum units are adjustable.
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Re: To cold spark plugs?
[Re: lewtot184]
#2772500
05/08/20 03:02 PM
05/08/20 03:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2019
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Mopar493
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[quote=Mopar493][quote=lewtot184][quote=Mopar493][quote=lewtot184i know Don at FBO likes full manifold vacuum for the vacuum advance, I don't; unless the vacuum is so low you need the extra advance at low rpm. I wouldn't do that with as high of vacuum as your engine is making. I bet that engine is making a bunch of low to mid rpm cylinder pressure with that cam closing the intake valve so early and this could lead to some detonation. don't be afraid to try the timed port. those vacuum units are adjustable. Yes he told me to use it, i did a compression test and it shows 200 psi on all 8,i test in 4 pulses on every cylinder and the gauge swings up to 150 psi on the first pulse. The cam close the intake valve 64 degrees after BDC so its pretty mild for the cui's. I have not heard any pinging so far or not seen any signs of it on the piston tops but i have only drive it with the msd pro billet distributor set at 16 initial and full advance at 3000rpm and 34 degrees, so i dont know yet how it respond to vacuum advance, i have to test it some and see
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Re: To cold spark plugs?
[Re: Mopar493]
#2772598
05/08/20 07:46 PM
05/08/20 07:46 PM
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lewtot184
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[quote=Mopar493][quote=lewtot184][quote=Mopar493][quote=lewtot184i know Don at FBO likes full manifold vacuum for the vacuum advance, I don't; unless the vacuum is so low you need the extra advance at low rpm. I wouldn't do that with as high of vacuum as your engine is making. I bet that engine is making a bunch of low to mid rpm cylinder pressure with that cam closing the intake valve so early and this could lead to some detonation. don't be afraid to try the timed port. those vacuum units are adjustable. Yes he told me to use it, i did a compression test and it shows 200 psi on all 8,i test in 4 pulses on every cylinder and the gauge swings up to 150 psi on the first pulse. The cam close the intake valve 64 degrees after BDC so its pretty mild for the cui's. I have not heard any pinging so far or not seen any signs of it on the piston tops but i have only drive it with the msd pro billet distributor set at 16 initial and full advance at 3000rpm and 34 degrees, so i dont know yet how it respond to vacuum advance, i have to test it some and see it's not rocket science just be patient and don't put your head in a box. 200psi is high for pump gas so you may have to walk a fine line to stay out of detonation. I use the mopar distributors in both my cars and I do mimic mopars centrifugal curve set-ups for street along with the vacuum advance. I went thru a bunch of different configurations to come up with something I liked.
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Re: To cold spark plugs?
[Re: Mopar493]
#2772643
05/08/20 10:24 PM
05/08/20 10:24 PM
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BSB67
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......... the engine runs great but slight misses on idle, the engine have about 400 miles on it since cam break in. You cannot learn anything by reading plugs from a motor that has a miss at idle. They will look like want you have, and it could be a lean miss.
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