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Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: CMcAllister] #2771860
05/06/20 05:06 PM
05/06/20 05:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,770
St. Louis, Missouri area
Cometstorm Offline OP
"Beat It"
Cometstorm  Offline OP
"Beat It"

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,770
St. Louis, Missouri area
Well, at any rate...

Drove the car on some errands today.

No brake issues whatsoever. Must've wore off whatever was causing it.

I've had a few cars in the past that (Saturns, in particular) were notorious for that... Some brake sounds upon initial drive after sitting outside, then nothing after a few miles.

On the oil issue, monitor reads 95% good. Not that it's the most reliable thing....but still.

Need to find a more reliable place, I know they're out there! up

Yes, in response to some who posted suggesting "If I don't like it, do it myself." I'm afraid those days are long gone with age... wrench

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: CMcAllister] #2771864
05/06/20 05:14 PM
05/06/20 05:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,897
Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
not_a_charger Offline
Mr. Big Shot Moparts Moderator
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Mr. Big Shot Moparts Moderator

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,897
Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
Quote
And if "Mr. I did you a favor and brought my own parts" shows up, send him down the road.


That guy is usually as bad as "my car is perfect guy." Sometimes, he's even the same guy. biggrin


Earning every penny of that moderator paycheck.

DBAP
Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: not_a_charger] #2771877
05/06/20 06:24 PM
05/06/20 06:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,822
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,822
Kirkland, Washington
Originally Posted by not_a_charger
Quote
And if "Mr. I did you a favor and brought my own parts" shows up, send him down the road.


That guy is usually as bad as "my car is perfect guy." Sometimes, he's even the same guy. biggrin


I did that with my first car, 45 years ago. U-Joints, had no idea that what I was doing was unethical.

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2771923
05/06/20 08:45 PM
05/06/20 08:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,763
A collage of whims
topside Offline
Too Many Posts
topside  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,763
A collage of whims
What's funny about bringing your own parts is that 3 guys here - trans/diff guy, exhaust/muffler guy, and my mechanic guy - usually suggest I do that.
Bear in mind that I do frequent business with them, and take care of them for stuff like racking the car for a look - $20 or a 12-pack of beer - and refer customers to them.
I communicate that I know they need a profit margin on parts, and often enough slide 'em either extra money or beers (beer is like clean money around here).
They know I'm fairly picky, but I pay whatever the bill is and don't grind them on cost or time...I figure it's just being respectful.
Bottom line is to establish a relationship with whoever works on your stuff, and things almost always go well, win/win.

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: CMcAllister] #2771969
05/07/20 12:13 AM
05/07/20 12:13 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 959
Cincinnati,Ohio
J
jcastle1 Offline
super stock
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J

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 959
Cincinnati,Ohio
I have learned people will take anything you're giving away for free just as long as you are willing to do it. And once you do it, they expect it.

An oil change should be considered a service. Maybe include a "free" tire rotation if you want. Just make sure the time is covered. A quick glance at the brakes and tires while doing that. Look around for leaks, stuff falling off, belts, lights, while the oil is draining and while you're adding oil and topping fluids. It really doesn't need to be an hours long production dissecting everything. People soon figure out whether you're looking out for them or for yourself.

An in depth inspection is offered at some places for a set price, maybe an hour. Often it is sold as a used car inspection service or a Spring get the car ready service.

Doing annual inspections are when you really look for needed stuff you can sell, especially since it HAS to be fixed.

Two of the best pieces of advice I've received is "If you're good at what you do, don't do it for free." And "Sometimes you're better off firing a customer." The 19.95 oil change - free inspection places are a magnet for tight wads, cheapskates & FSA types who want someone to give them everything. They go to the auto parts for the "free diagnostic" that ain't worth spit, buy the part and expect you to install it for $10. Then want you to fix it for free when it doesn't fix the car. I know all about that from both the shop and the auto parts side of it..

This guy started out fine. OP was comfortable with the guy. Then the guy went into "get as much as I can out of this guy while the getiin's good" mode, tried to BS him and ended up screwing himself. Do good work, get paid for it, don't BS the customer or take advantage of them. If they are a regular and not a PIA an occasional favor for goodwill is fine. And if "Mr. I did you a favor and brought my own parts" shows up, send him down the road.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.

EXACTLY!

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: jcastle1] #2771976
05/07/20 01:25 AM
05/07/20 01:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,551
Fulton County, PA
C
CMcAllister Offline
Mr. Helpful
CMcAllister  Offline
Mr. Helpful
C

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,551
Fulton County, PA
I knew a guy who runs (ran now maybe) a back alley shop the people in the hood would take their stuff to. He had an account at a parts store. One deal he liked to pull, customer would bring their car in for a no start. Shop guy would diagnose it, maybe it would need a fuel pump. Shop guy calls the parts store, verifies price and availability and says to bill it to him and the customer will come get it and pay for it.

Customer retrieves and pays for new pump ($3-400 usually) and takes it back to the shop. Shop guy tells the customer that he'll call him when it's done.

Shop guy will go to the junk yard and buy a fuel pump or whatever he needed to get the car going. 10 or 20 bucks. Put the used fuel pump in the car and get it going. Bring the new pump back to the store with his receipt, tell them he didn't need it and get his 3 or $400 back. Cash. Did that all the time with all kinds of parts.

It's a jungle out there.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: jcastle1] #2772038
05/07/20 10:04 AM
05/07/20 10:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,770
St. Louis, Missouri area
Cometstorm Offline OP
"Beat It"
Cometstorm  Offline OP
"Beat It"

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,770
St. Louis, Missouri area
Originally Posted by jcastle1
I have learned people will take anything you're giving away for free just as long as you are willing to do it. And once you do it, they expect it.

An oil change should be considered a service. Maybe include a "free" tire rotation if you want. Just make sure the time is covered. A quick glance at the brakes and tires while doing that. Look around for leaks, stuff falling off, belts, lights, while the oil is draining and while you're adding oil and topping fluids. It really doesn't need to be an hours long production dissecting everything. People soon figure out whether you're looking out for them or for yourself.

An in depth inspection is offered at some places for a set price, maybe an hour. Often it is sold as a used car inspection service or a Spring get the car ready service.

Doing annual inspections are when you really look for needed stuff you can sell, especially since it HAS to be fixed.

Two of the best pieces of advice I've received is "If you're good at what you do, don't do it for free." And "Sometimes you're better off firing a customer." The 19.95 oil change - free inspection places are a magnet for tight wads, cheapskates & FSA types who want someone to give them everything. They go to the auto parts for the "free diagnostic" that ain't worth spit, buy the part and expect you to install it for $10. Then want you to fix it for free when it doesn't fix the car. I know all about that from both the shop and the auto parts side of it..

This guy started out fine. OP was comfortable with the guy. Then the guy went into "get as much as I can out of this guy while the getiin's good" mode, tried to BS him and ended up screwing himself. Do good work, get paid for it, don't BS the customer or take advantage of them. If they are a regular and not a PIA an occasional favor for goodwill is fine. And if "Mr. I did you a favor and brought my own parts" shows up, send him down the road.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.

EXACTLY!


You nailed it very well! up

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: CMcAllister] #2772341
05/08/20 06:12 AM
05/08/20 06:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696
jersey
S
Spaceman Spiff Offline
master
Spaceman Spiff  Offline
master
S

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696
jersey
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Unless there is a real issue, a brake inspection in my world is look at the pads and verify no leaks. Done. A lot of the time it can be done without removing the wheels. Unless it has a real concern - pulling, pulsating, losing fluid, lights on, park brake hanging or something obvious - I'm not going to spend a lot of time tearing stuff apart to look at it.

The brake fluid I get. It does get nasty and degrade. However, that would be done at the same time as a brake service/pad change.

Again, I would have been done with this guy early on. I would have pushed the car off the lot before letting him do any work. Don't BS me.


I’m guessing your world doesn’t involve working on other’s vehicles, where actual safety is a concern?


526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: Spaceman Spiff] #2772428
05/08/20 11:47 AM
05/08/20 11:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,551
Fulton County, PA
C
CMcAllister Offline
Mr. Helpful
CMcAllister  Offline
Mr. Helpful
C

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,551
Fulton County, PA
Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Unless there is a real issue, a brake inspection in my world is look at the pads and verify no leaks. Done. A lot of the time it can be done without removing the wheels. Unless it has a real concern - pulling, pulsating, losing fluid, lights on, park brake hanging or something obvious - I'm not going to spend a lot of time tearing stuff apart to look at it.

The brake fluid I get. It does get nasty and degrade. However, that would be done at the same time as a brake service/pad change.

Again, I would have been done with this guy early on. I would have pushed the car off the lot before letting him do any work. Don't BS me.


I’m guessing your world doesn’t involve working on other’s vehicles, where actual safety is a concern?


Haven't been on a line in awhile, but I don't recall people ever wanting to pay me to take stuff apart just to look at it beyond maybe pulling drums. Not without having a specific concern. Or doing a pad or shoe replacement and the stuff is already apart.

Been screwing with junk with wheels for other people since 1974.

Last edited by CMcAllister; 05/08/20 11:54 AM.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: CMcAllister] #2772634
05/08/20 09:55 PM
05/08/20 09:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,796
minnarusta
TX9H6E4CUDA Offline
master
TX9H6E4CUDA  Offline
master

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,796
minnarusta
I just went through getting reamed by a shop.

I had this 1992 Caprice and the original rear end was howling. I installed a new police car rear axle with a better ratio. Ever since the wap I was chasing a driveline vibration. Long story short, After doing everything I could, I asked a friend who is a mechanic where to bring it. He suggested a local driveline shop and he sends all of his driveline work there.

I made an appointment and dropped the car off. I wrote a note about everything that was done so far and that if the repair goes over $350.00, to call me first.

First week: no word and when i called they were going over everything I already did.
Second week: no call and when I called they Did somethings and still not fixed
Third week: no call, when I called they talked about the pinion angle was off, ordered new control arms and the bill was $650. Shocked but still ok with it, I said go ahead
Fourth week: no call, I called and they said car is still vibrating and they are throwing in the towel. They were "not charging me for labor" and parts only at $950.00. I almost dropped the phone and started yelling at him. He said they went through the entire rear axle and have four weeks into the car.

I paid the bill on my unfixed car and I put it up for sale the next day. I couldn't even look at the car anymore. I will do everything in my power to cost them tripple that amount in lost sales.

If you are an honest mechanic, I will bend over backwards to be an awesome customer. Any MN residents want to know what shop it was PM me.


For the absolute best powder coating go to J.I.T powder coating, contact infomation is in my personal profile..
Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: TX9H6E4CUDA] #2772660
05/08/20 11:49 PM
05/08/20 11:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,235
Phoenix, AZ
Jjs72D Offline
Deep in the closet
Jjs72D  Offline
Deep in the closet

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,235
Phoenix, AZ

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: Jjs72D] #2772706
05/09/20 06:58 AM
05/09/20 06:58 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 601
Mass
C
charge70 Offline
mopar
charge70  Offline
mopar
C

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 601
Mass
In our shop,if I'm doing a LOF I will do a quick visual brake check.That means looking thru the wheels at pad wear. If the customer wants the brakes checked with wheels off or drums pulled,then the clock starts.If we find it needs brakes and the customer wants them done now,we will do the inspect at no charge.If they decline repairs,they pay for the time.


1970 Dodge Charger R/T S.E. 1969 Dodge Dart GTS 440 M-Code 1970 Dodge Charger 500 383/4-speed w/A.C.
Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: ] #3030667
04/04/22 04:58 PM
04/04/22 04:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,917
United Socialist States of Ame...
T
tboomer Online work
Too Many Posts
tboomer  Online Work
Too Many Posts
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,917
United Socialist States of Ame...
Spam is not a good way to start on Moparts... whistling


Need your rear end checked out? Contact Grizzly!!
Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: tboomer] #3030669
04/04/22 05:22 PM
04/04/22 05:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,507
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12 Offline
Too Many Posts
A12  Offline
Too Many Posts

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Posts: 21,507
N.E. OHIO, USA
Originally Posted by tboomer
Spam is not a good way to start on Moparts... whistling


That's all it is down

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: Cometstorm] #3030717
04/04/22 08:39 PM
04/04/22 08:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,234
Looking for a way out of Middl...
IMGTX Offline
I Live Here
IMGTX  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,234
Looking for a way out of Middl...
I find complaining about a shops policies always brings out people who defend the shop so I wouldn't get wound up if somebody does.

Last time I had my wife's car in for the second alternator replacement. Original one died after 120K miles. The replacement only made it 20K and died. It happens, parts fail so no biggie. They replaced it for free because it was less than 2 years old. I had heard stories about the new management so I charged and tested the battery before I took it in so they couldn't say it needed a battery too, but they texted me and said they wanted to replace the battery because it was "heavily discharged" for only $340. I said no, and that battery is still going after 3 years.

As for the copper in the brake lines, that is a new one. Copper in the brake pads is one I have heard about. Some places decided that copper in the brake pads could be toxic so they passed laws limiting copper in the pads. Cali is the only one I know of but I'm sure there are other states. Copper has been in brake and clutch pads for probably over a century and nobody has a confirmed case of copper exposure to brake pads because they were used on vehicles. Maybe manufacturing them but not from using them or replacing them.

If you were concerned about the copper in the pads then I would replace them when they wore out with copper free pads but for me not any sooner than when they wore out, unless the thought bothers you.

At least you spent a necessary $24 to find out where not to go. up

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: BSharp] #3030747
04/04/22 09:54 PM
04/04/22 09:54 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,240
nowhere
S
Sniper Offline
master
Sniper  Offline
master
S

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,240
nowhere
Originally Posted by BSharp
Technically, that's a 3/4 race cam.


No, no. no it's a v6 cam in a v8, lol

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: Sniper] #3030762
04/04/22 10:27 PM
04/04/22 10:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 1,183
Nor here, Nor there
D
Dart 500 Offline
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Posts: 1,183
Nor here, Nor there
They prefer you to bring your own parts these days for obvious reasons, or if you want your car back this month.

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: jcastle1] #3030784
04/04/22 11:35 PM
04/04/22 11:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,427
It's a dry heat
gtx6970 Offline
Too Many Posts
gtx6970  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,427
It's a dry heat
Originally Posted by jcastle1
I have learned people will take anything you're giving away for free just as long as you are willing to do it. And once you do it, they expect it.

An oil change should be considered a service. Maybe include a "free" tire rotation if you want. Just make sure the time is covered. A quick glance at the brakes and tires while doing that. Look around for leaks, stuff falling off, belts, lights, while the oil is draining and while you're adding oil and topping fluids. It really doesn't need to be an hours long production dissecting everything. People soon figure out whether you're looking out for them or for yourself.

An in depth inspection is offered at some places for a set price, maybe an hour. Often it is sold as a used car inspection service or a Spring get the car ready service.

Doing annual inspections are when you really look for needed stuff you can sell, especially since it HAS to be fixed.

Two of the best pieces of advice I've received is "If you're good at what you do, don't do it for free." And "Sometimes you're better off firing a customer." The 19.95 oil change - free inspection places are a magnet for tight wads, cheapskates & FSA types who want someone to give them everything. They go to the auto parts for the "free diagnostic" that ain't worth spit, buy the part and expect you to install it for $10. Then want you to fix it for free when it doesn't fix the car. I know all about that from both the shop and the auto parts side of it..

This guy started out fine. OP was comfortable with the guy. Then the guy went into "get as much as I can out of this guy while the getiin's good" mode, tried to BS him and ended up screwing himself. Do good work, get paid for it, don't BS the customer or take advantage of them. If they are a regular and not a PIA an occasional favor for goodwill is fine. And if "Mr. I did you a favor and brought my own parts" shows up, send him down the road.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.

EXACTLY!



EXACTLY. boogie

Re: Bit of auto repair shop venting [Re: jcastle1] #3031074
04/05/22 10:04 PM
04/05/22 10:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,350
Omaha Ne
T
TJP Offline
I Live Here
TJP  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,350
Omaha Ne
There are always two sides to a story. this will be one from the Other side:

A guy brings in an MG with a SBC in with an o/heating problem, engine compartment covered with dried rusty coolant. He claims another local shop piped him and said it was fixed. He says it overheated within 3 miles of the shop and that after getting piped he wasn't going back. So he had it flat bedded home and then to us.
OK. A quick check revealed the fans weren't operating and there were really bad crimps on the wiring. In fact the whole car was a rats nest with a mix of mismatched splices connectors etc. I recommend a complete rewire @ ~5K. he asks can we just fix the fans. I said yes with a disclaimer of liability on any other electrical issues. About 700.00 total with the time already consumed. OK.
So we do a complete rewire of the fan circuit, relay, probe etc. I call him and say it's done. he requests that we put at least 30 miles on it to verify it's no longer O/heating. OK. Call him and say all is well. He says go ahead and clean the engine bay and polish the stained aluminum etc. as he is taking it to a show. We proceed to do so and a quick detail. I email him a 1200.00 invoice. He shows up with his wife throws a tantrum and says 1200.00 to fix a couple of connections is outrageous and stomps out and gets in the car. I actually apologized to his wife for her husbands outrage and said a lady should not have to be subjected to that. She goes out talks to him. Comes back in announces she is a lawyer and they are willing to pay 500.00 IF I sign a pre prepared statement releasing them from any further claims. PO'd yes, worth the time or money to pursue NO. Sign the paper take the check. 2 days later the car is on line for sale at a local classic car dealer. I contact a person who knows the dealership owner quite well. He tells the owner to pick the car up as their inspection revealed electrical issues he does not want to be liable for. Don't know where it went after that.
Fortunately I have only had a few similar incidents in 25 years of business. And with each one I became a little smarter but there are a lot of "slick willies" out there wanting it for nothing.
One of the things I learned not yet mentioned, "The quicker they want it done, the more likely they will be a problem when it was time to pay." BTW we had about 16 hours in the car.

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