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Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? #2767895
04/24/20 05:04 PM
04/24/20 05:04 PM
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I'm at the limits of the stock 440 block now and would like to spray a lot more than the 200 shot that we are using now and at the same time make a little more HP n/a.

At the same time I will be upgrading heads as well to support the larger cubic inches.

What are the pros and cons of aluminum vs. iron on the street other than the obvious weight differential?


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? [Re: GY3] #2767899
04/24/20 05:29 PM
04/24/20 05:29 PM
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New York
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Aluminum is fixable, and at these prices it's worth fixing (was it Mickey Thompson who said "anything aluminum can be fixed - if you don't care how long it takes, or what it looks like afterward"?). I don't know of cooling differences in the RB block.
I'm sure this doesn't apply to every engine, but there appears to be a cylinder pressure limit where aluminum begins to fail head gaskets, leak fluids, drop oil pressure etc. because of dimensional limitations (you can't just add metal or nothing OEM will fit), but who knows where this is?
My Toyota 183" L6 factory iron block & aluminum head can take 200 hp per cylinder with nothing special except fasteners. I would feel more confident with iron, but that's just my OCD.
Let us know what you're thinking?


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Re: Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? [Re: polyspheric] #2767913
04/24/20 06:51 PM
04/24/20 06:51 PM
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Sydney,Australia
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I guess first you have to get access to a block .

I was told the aluminium block would have some movement and reach a settled best after the second or third freshen up . Old wives tale ?
I went iron , yes i got lucky . You have to be more careful with ali to get / keep warmed up . I didnt feel going into stage with a cool block was what i wanted . Iron moving less would reduce this . Just read some of the growth amounts people talk about .
Not sure about ring seal differences tjough that is often brought up . Maybe at higher hp levels than you or i ?
As a daily driver i am happier again with the iron for warm up .
I am na , so cant help with gas
But the extra lbs i could do without . All a trade off .

Tex


New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? [Re: GY3] #2767920
04/24/20 07:45 PM
04/24/20 07:45 PM
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How much HP is it taking now?
How much do you want to have total with the spray?
I have a friend who has raced heads up(not a Mopar engine) with both types of blocks, aluminum and cast grey iron and went faster and with the iron blocks, he used all three types of power adders on that car, NOS, twin turbos and a Pro Charger. The iron wedge head block was the fastest and quickest shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2767983
04/24/20 11:22 PM
04/24/20 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
How much HP is it taking now?
How much do you want to have total with the spray?
I have a friend who has raced heads up(not a Mopar engine) with both types of blocks, aluminum and cast grey iron and went faster and with the iron blocks, he used all three types of power adders on that car, NOS, twin turbos and a Pro Charger. The iron wedge head block was the fastest and quickest shruggy


Spraying 200 shot now on just under 600 n/a. Would like to be ~1000 all in.


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? [Re: GY3] #2768003
04/25/20 12:59 AM
04/25/20 12:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
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I've made 730 HP N/A on Oregon pump fuel with a 400 block with the Mopar brand ductile iron main caps with 517 C.I. with one 1050 Dominator with a set of Indy SR M.W size port heads, that motor had right at 10.8 to 1 compression and lived on the street and at the track shifting at or above 7000 RPM on all runs.
I try to make sure I don't use 440 blocks for any build over 700 HP, N/A or other wise after having three 440 block cracked the main webbing between #1 and # 3 cylinders whiney
No problem with good sonic tested 400 block yet at or above 775 HP N/A so far luck


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? [Re: GY3] #2768036
04/25/20 10:04 AM
04/25/20 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by GY3
I'm at the limits of the stock 440 block now and would like to spray a lot more than the 200 shot that we are using now and at the same time make a little more HP n/a.

At the same time I will be upgrading heads as well to support the larger cubic inches.

What are the pros and cons of aluminum vs. iron on the street other than the obvious weight differential?


Yes the alum moves around a lot more and yes the iron makes more power......BUT when you look at repairability and the fact that you can LOSE 100+ (aluminum) rather than gain 100 (Iron) . And the fact that Indy Cyl Head has a great owner now, I would buy the Indy Maxx. Ive had one for well over ten years now and its still going strong. Makes over 900 NA and takes 400+ nitrous and sill has great pan vacum. MAKE sure whoever hones your block knows how to hone alum blocks, thats the main thing to worry about. Other than that you need to deal with the lash growing and thats it.

what heads do you want to use?


Last edited by n20mstr; 04/25/20 10:09 AM.

....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? [Re: n20mstr] #2768040
04/25/20 10:11 AM
04/25/20 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by n20mstr
Originally Posted by GY3
I'm at the limits of the stock 440 block now and would like to spray a lot more than the 200 shot that we are using now and at the same time make a little more HP n/a.

At the same time I will be upgrading heads as well to support the larger cubic inches.

What are the pros and cons of aluminum vs. iron on the street other than the obvious weight differential?


Yes the alum moves around a lot more and yes the iron makes more power......BUT when you look at repairability and the fact that you can LOSE 100+ (aluminum) rather than gain 100 (Iron) . And the fact that Indy Cyl Head has a great owner now, I would buy the Indy Maxx. Ive had one for well over ten years now and its still going strong. Makes over 900 NA and takes 400+ nitrous and sill has great pan vacum. MAKE sure whoever hones your block knows how to hone alum blocks, thats the main thing to worry about. Other than that you need to deal with the lash growing and thats it.

what heads do you want to use?



Yes! The voice of experience. I love your car!

How streetable is your combo? (I know, loaded question.)

I was looking at CNC ported 440-1 Indy heads. Would the Trickflow 270's even be worth considering?

Last edited by GY3; 04/25/20 10:13 AM.

'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? [Re: GY3] #2768045
04/25/20 10:21 AM
04/25/20 10:21 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,675
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Streetable? now not so much, however when i first put the Indy block it was very streetable. It had 440-1 ported at Modern Cyl Head. A .660/.670 roller cam (Scott Brown) that was pretty mild and didnt use killer springs. I was 4.15 X 4.375 , 499" and the fastest it went was 8.40 @ 160, Back then i was leaving on a plate with a .070 nitrous jet and progressing a .032 direct port on top of that. The car was 3500lbs back then, full interior all glass windows, wipers , radio etc

Like i said, biggest thing is ring seal with a nitrous motor and you need to get someone to hone the block that knows this.

Dont know where you buying the heads, I like the 440-1 but consider getting the chambers softened and yea i know no one wants to spray a lot of nitrous, but it happens LOL , that said the cam will be critical in how timing sensitive you are at higher levels of nitrous. I would have BES do your headwork, and Scott Brown make your cam. Just remember on this combination that you may eventually end up single digit timing, especially if you dont get the chambers softened. My current cam opens the exh way early, obviously hurts NA power but helps a lot when using a lot of nitrous.

Consider getting your plate? flowed, Not sure what your using right now, but for years i resisted doing this, but finally did it and it was a great help. PKRE, or Induction solutions, Induction solutions sells some nice plates, the Holey Moley is pretty similar to a NX single entry crossbar (thats what im using) Get a plate that goes to 600+ because you can always dial it back to 2-300? THat and get a decent progressive, Edelbrock is good entry level, but there are a lot of choices out there.

Pay attention to SLR, dont know what rear gear you have but beleive me , you dont want to use a 727 with a 2.45? first gear and 3.90 rear, It will make it hard to hook, and it will want to knock the tires or stand up if it hooks, YOu want a SLR somewhere 7.50 or less, the more power the less SLR. RIght now i am at 6.068 thats 1.48X4.10. SOmething to remeber and experiment with. Make sure your trans can leave in 2nd and then myou can have 1.45? and 4.30 or 4.56. Unfortunately its a trial and error thing, and you be surprised the more you get to 1,000 and over , the less SLR you need

ANy other questions let me know


Last edited by n20mstr; 04/25/20 10:35 AM.

....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? [Re: n20mstr] #2768075
04/25/20 11:21 AM
04/25/20 11:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
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NW Indiana
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With the price difference between iron and aluminum I personally would never buy a iron block. At least 100 lbs weight savings and repairable to boot,its a no-brainer.

Re: Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? [Re: fbs63] #2768088
04/25/20 11:46 AM
04/25/20 11:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
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I use to like that tan dart when it had a column shifter whistling laugh2 beer


HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? [Re: n20mstr] #2768156
04/25/20 03:29 PM
04/25/20 03:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
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Wichita
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Originally Posted by n20mstr
Streetable? now not so much, however when i first put the Indy block it was very streetable. It had 440-1 ported at Modern Cyl Head. A .660/.670 roller cam (Scott Brown) that was pretty mild and didnt use killer springs. I was 4.15 X 4.375 , 499" and the fastest it went was 8.40 @ 160, Back then i was leaving on a plate with a .070 nitrous jet and progressing a .032 direct port on top of that. The car was 3500lbs back then, full interior all glass windows, wipers , radio etc

Like i said, biggest thing is ring seal with a nitrous motor and you need to get someone to hone the block that knows this.

Dont know where you buying the heads, I like the 440-1 but consider getting the chambers softened and yea i know no one wants to spray a lot of nitrous, but it happens LOL , that said the cam will be critical in how timing sensitive you are at higher levels of nitrous. I would have BES do your headwork, and Scott Brown make your cam. Just remember on this combination that you may eventually end up single digit timing, especially if you dont get the chambers softened. My current cam opens the exh way early, obviously hurts NA power but helps a lot when using a lot of nitrous.

Consider getting your plate? flowed, Not sure what your using right now, but for years i resisted doing this, but finally did it and it was a great help. PKRE, or Induction solutions, Induction solutions sells some nice plates, the Holey Moley is pretty similar to a NX single entry crossbar (thats what im using) Get a plate that goes to 600+ because you can always dial it back to 2-300? THat and get a decent progressive, Edelbrock is good entry level, but there are a lot of choices out there.

Pay attention to SLR, dont know what rear gear you have but beleive me , you dont want to use a 727 with a 2.45? first gear and 3.90 rear, It will make it hard to hook, and it will want to knock the tires or stand up if it hooks, YOu want a SLR somewhere 7.50 or less, the more power the less SLR. RIght now i am at 6.068 thats 1.48X4.10. SOmething to remeber and experiment with. Make sure your trans can leave in 2nd and then myou can have 1.45? and 4.30 or 4.56. Unfortunately its a trial and error thing, and you be surprised the more you get to 1,000 and over , the less SLR you need

ANy other questions let me know


I'm at 8.67 SLR right now and have done the 5.13 SLR using 2nd gear starts. I have a NX plate kit now but have been looking at the Holey Moley. Thanks for the advice!


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? [Re: GY3] #2768160
04/25/20 03:35 PM
04/25/20 03:35 PM
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The HP difference between aluminum and iron is negligible at best. No way will it be enough to make up for the weight difference. So for me it is an easy decision..


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? [Re: GY3] #2768168
04/25/20 04:04 PM
04/25/20 04:04 PM
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Spend a few minutes on the phone talking to Chuck at Best Machine and get the real story from him on aluminum blocks and find out if the Indy stuff works on the street or not. Those guys build this stuff over and over and they have a lot of customers out driving their engines. Chuck can tell you what will work and what doesn't.

Re: Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? [Re: AndyF] #2768233
04/25/20 07:22 PM
04/25/20 07:22 PM
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I am using the NX crossbar single entry plate. With a trashcan and an NX .310 fuel solenoid. It was flowed by PKRE . THe Holey Moley is very similar to the NX plate. Im using a Holley Dominator ECU for the ignition and to control my nitrous. WHen your looking at progressives see if you can get one that controls the nitrous and fuel independently. That helps a lot when getting to larger tunes to keep it from going lean early into the run.
Definitley think things through, dont get whats "good for now" as honestly the better stuff will work and give you room to grow later on.
Good luck sounds like a great plan , and soon youll be needing MORE rollcage..LOL

Chuck at Best is also a great resource for sure, as well as an INDY dealer

Last edited by n20mstr; 04/25/20 07:23 PM.

....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? [Re: n20mstr] #2768370
04/26/20 10:48 AM
04/26/20 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by n20mstr
I am using the NX crossbar single entry plate. With a trashcan and an NX .310 fuel solenoid. It was flowed by PKRE . THe Holey Moley is very similar to the NX plate. Im using a Holley Dominator ECU for the ignition and to control my nitrous. WHen your looking at progressives see if you can get one that controls the nitrous and fuel independently. That helps a lot when getting to larger tunes to keep it from going lean early into the run.
Definitley think things through, dont get whats "good for now" as honestly the better stuff will work and give you room to grow later on.
Good luck sounds like a great plan , and soon youll be needing MORE rollcage..LOL

Chuck at Best is also a great resource for sure, as well as an INDY dealer


Yep, developing a game plan now. Definitely not looking forward to adding to the cage... whiney


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? [Re: hemi-itis] #2768411
04/26/20 12:48 PM
04/26/20 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by hemi-itis
I use to like that tan dart when it had a column shifter whistling laugh2 beer


It was different tho. drive

I have a ?.....what is softening the combustion chambers shruggy?

Re: Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? [Re: GY3] #2768427
04/26/20 01:37 PM
04/26/20 01:37 PM
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Great Neck,LI,new york
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Yep, developing a game plan now. Definitely not looking forward to adding to the cage... whiney [/quote]

CM Dodge boy!!


HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? [Re: racerx] #2768446
04/26/20 03:40 PM
04/26/20 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by racerx
Originally Posted by hemi-itis
I use to like that tan dart when it had a column shifter whistling laugh2 beer


It was different tho. drive

I have a ?.....what is softening the combustion chambers shruggy?


imagine a shallow "bowl" cut into the chamber. it slows the flame front . NA type cylinder heads speed up combustion to make more power. Nitrous speeds up the combustion also, thats why you reduce the combustion speed by retard timing, reduce quench, etc. Its a balance of too much vs too little.
Most mopar cyl heads have relatively small chambers and a lot of quench areas, (B1, 440-1) they are more geared toward NA


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: Street/Strip aftermarket block. aluminum or cast iron? [Re: hemi-itis] #2768447
04/26/20 03:41 PM
04/26/20 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by hemi-itis
I use to like that tan dart when it had a column shifter whistling laugh2 beer



SO did I

what can you do ? its progress ....LOL


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
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