Re: Heavy rod 440 on test stand: What flywheel?
[Re: cdp]
#2760814
04/06/20 04:44 PM
04/06/20 04:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,252 New York
rarefish
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You will need the flywheel for an externally balance heavy rod 440 engine to get the balance right.
Last edited by rarefish; 04/06/20 04:49 PM.
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Re: Heavy rod 440 on test stand: What flywheel?
[Re: cdp]
#2760835
04/06/20 05:24 PM
04/06/20 05:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,817 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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The '72 heavy rod 440 didn't need external balance because it had lighter low-compression pistons.
You can externally balance a neutral flywheel by using the diagram below.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Heavy rod 440 on test stand: What flywheel?
[Re: cdp]
#2760880
04/06/20 08:10 PM
04/06/20 08:10 PM
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A727Tflite
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Thanks!
That is exactly the kind of information I was looking for! Make sure you orient the crank bolt pattern as shown in the diagram - i’m sure you noticed one of the offset crank bolts.
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Re: Heavy rod 440 on test stand: What flywheel?
[Re: cdp]
#2760883
04/06/20 08:14 PM
04/06/20 08:14 PM
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Posts: 315 Ontario, Canada
RealWing
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The 1970 440-6bbl had the external balance weights on the torque converter. can you find a 1970 440-6bbl flywheel? Or drill a standard flywheel as noted on the previous diagram. You need to install that to make sure the balance is correct. I would not fire the engine without the correct external balance. Is that a numbers matching engine for the Superbird? Jim
Last edited by RealWing; 04/06/20 08:17 PM.
1970 Superbird 440-6bbl, auto 1969 Barracuda 340-4bbl, FB Formula S auto 1969 Barracuda 6.1 L Hemi, 5 speed, Convertible 2022 Can Am Spyder RTL
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Re: Heavy rod 440 on test stand: What flywheel?
[Re: RealWing]
#2760896
04/06/20 09:03 PM
04/06/20 09:03 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,691 MO
cdp
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Re: Heavy rod 440 on test stand: What flywheel?
[Re: cdp]
#2760908
04/06/20 09:35 PM
04/06/20 09:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,195 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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Has any of the internal rotating motor parts, rods, piston, crankshaft been changed or is it still all stock? I'm trying to remember when the 1970 Superbird cars where made, not all the 1970 440 HP, especially 375 HP motors, came with the "6 pack" heavy rods. Do you know for sure that it does have the 6 pack rods? You already said it had the 6 pack balancer on it, correct? I don't envy you or him, this is not a good dilemma to be in I would take it apart now and have it balanced with the same parts your going to run in the car I ended up with a V code 1970 Charger R/T 4 speed car that had a scheduled production date of 10-26-1969, a early car. That car had the original six pack motor replace under warranty in April of 1970, it still had the external balanced flywheel and balancer on it when I got it, the Flywheel was drilled with a big bit like shown in the pictures John added on here . I wish that I had measure the diameter and depth of those holes, but I didn't
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/06/20 09:37 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Heavy rod 440 on test stand: What flywheel?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2760963
04/07/20 12:33 AM
04/07/20 12:33 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
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cdp
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It has the heavy rods, I was there when the motor was assembled. It was NOT rebalanced. Bored .030 over and 2355 sixpack pistons installed. They probably should have had it rebalanced, but pistons calculate to be 15 grams heavier than the stock ones.
Its a trailer queen, so I'm doubting it will have any issues in the balancing department.
Last edited by cdp; 04/07/20 09:15 AM.
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Re: Heavy rod 440 on test stand: What flywheel?
[Re: cdp]
#2760965
04/07/20 12:41 AM
04/07/20 12:41 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Cab_Burge
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I did a ring and bearing job on a 1971 440HP four barrel motor that had the heavier big six pack type rods in it, ,that long block went into a 1968 Charger 440 car along with the 1968 balancer and torque converter,. the customer did not want to have it balanced and I didn't know about the bigger rod motors being externally balanced back then That motor had a shake in it around 2200 to 2400 RPM in any gear at light part throttle driving that never got fixed ARE YOU feeling really LUCKY
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/07/20 12:42 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Heavy rod 440 on test stand: What flywheel?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2760996
04/07/20 07:36 AM
04/07/20 07:36 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
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dragon slayer
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If the engine builder balanced it, he would have to have the balancer and the flywheel, or Torque converter for external balance no? Are you sure it was not internally balanced? You did not really answer or I missed it, is the bird a 6 pack bird? The 70 440-4 would be internally balanced engine.
Typically to run, you can use what you have to start the motor. Buddy who builds street and race motor hemi/440, uses a flywheel and automatic housing shell on the test stand.
Building a 440 currently for a show car, and it has 6 pack pistons, standard rods, and cast crank. Was figuring it would need the cast crank balance, but turns out it was pretty well balanced as is. Windup using normal balancer, and it will be internally balanced.
So you really need to ask the engine builder how it is balanced. If internal, you can use what ever you have to get the engine started on the stand.
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Re: Heavy rod 440 on test stand: What flywheel?
[Re: dragon slayer]
#2761014
04/07/20 09:04 AM
04/07/20 09:04 AM
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6PakBee
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The 70 440-4 would be internally balanced engine. Are you sure? I have a 1970 440 HP single four barrel engine that has what looks like the 3512017 damper for the externally balanced engines. http://www.440source.com/dampers.htm I can take a photo if it comes to that.
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Re: Heavy rod 440 on test stand: What flywheel?
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2761021
04/07/20 09:23 AM
04/07/20 09:23 AM
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cdp
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The machine shop did the machining only. Assembly was done in house by friend. Again, engine specs, factory 1970 440 HP, externally balanced (from factory), heavy rod motor, automatic. Only major change was using Sealed Power 2355 pistons, to keep compression, as 2266's are junk low comrpession. Engine was not rebalanced.
By the way, I just rebuilt my #s matching 71 GTX engine, with heavy rods, and same combination (2355 pistons, no rebalance), and its probably the smoothest 440s I've ever owned.
I just want to be sure which flywheel to use.
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Re: Heavy rod 440 on test stand: What flywheel?
[Re: cdp]
#2761037
04/07/20 10:04 AM
04/07/20 10:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,721 North Dakota
6PakBee
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The machine shop did the machining only. Assembly was done in house by friend. Again, engine specs, factory 1970 440 HP, externally balanced (from factory), heavy rod motor, automatic. Only major change was using Sealed Power 2355 pistons, to keep compression, as 2266's are junk low comrpession. Engine was not rebalanced.
By the way, I just rebuilt my #s matching 71 GTX engine, with heavy rods, and same combination (2355 pistons, no rebalance), and its probably the smoothest 440s I've ever owned.
I just want to be sure which flywheel to use. Okay, you are going to need to use the unbalanced flywheel, or the equivalent. From John's drawing the unbalance is 6.5 inch/ounces or one ounce 6 1/2 inches from the center of the crank. The factory got the unbalance by drilling in the specified locations. What I would do if I were you is to take a neutral balanced flywheel and ADD weight 180 degrees from the drilled location at the pressure plate bolts. Yes, it would take some math to do the splitting as the pressure plate bolting is not directly in line but it is not advanced calculus. This way you can get the engine run in AND not modify a neutral balanced flywheel.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Heavy rod 440 on test stand: What flywheel?
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2761186
04/07/20 04:55 PM
04/07/20 04:55 PM
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Posts: 16,928 NC
440Jim
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Okay, you are going to need to use the unbalanced flywheel, or the equivalent. From John's drawing the unbalance is 6.5 inch/ounces or one ounce 6 1/2 inches from the center of the crank. The factory got the unbalance by drilling in the specified locations. What I would do if I were you is to take a neutral balanced flywheel and ADD weight 180 degrees from the drilled location at the pressure plate bolts. Yes, it would take some math to do the splitting as the pressure plate bolting is not directly in line but it is not advanced calculus. This way you can get the engine run in AND not modify a neutral balanced flywheel. Good thinking. For just starting and run checks below 2500 rpm, you can get it close enough. The better the math (and scale), the better the results.
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Re: Heavy rod 440 on test stand: What flywheel?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2761260
04/07/20 09:03 PM
04/07/20 09:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
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moparwizard
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Has any of the internal rotating motor parts, rods, piston, crankshaft been changed or is it still all stock? I'm trying to remember when the 1970 Superbird cars where made, not all the 1970 440 HP, especially 375 HP motors, came with the "6 pack" heavy rods. Do you know for sure that it does have the 6 pack rods? You already said it had the 6 pack balancer on it, correct? I don't envy you or him, this is not a good dilemma to be in I would take it apart now and have it balanced with the same parts your going to run in the car I ended up with a V code 1970 Charger R/T 4 speed car that had a scheduled production date of 10-26-1969, a early car. That car had the original six pack motor replace under warranty in April of 1970, it still had the external balanced flywheel and balancer on it when I got it, the Flywheel was drilled with a big bit like shown in the pictures John added on here . I wish that I had measure the diameter and depth of those holes, but I didn't All 70 440 HP engines came with heavy rods non HP came with LY
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Re: Heavy rod 440 on test stand: What flywheel?
[Re: moparwizard]
#2761406
04/08/20 10:01 AM
04/08/20 10:01 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,721 North Dakota
6PakBee
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Balance Weight Splitting This may be of some help. There are many others, I just picked this at random.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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