Re: SB WINDAGE TRAYS
[Re: Dave_J]
#2754298
03/21/20 07:33 PM
03/21/20 07:33 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Myself during testing I found that the 3/8 pipe will handle rpm up to and more than 8700 rpm... I normally build my own pick up to fit my pans(all are custom pan).. the pan I run now will hold 10 qts plus the filter and lines.. but I dont run that much oil in it.. but your 1/2 pick line looks good.. where did you get it at with the cover
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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAYS
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2754299
03/21/20 07:45 PM
03/21/20 07:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,122 Auburn WA
Dave_J
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,122
Auburn WA
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The one pictured is a Kevko M307. It says for a 9" pan but will be about 7/8 inch off the bottom of my truck pan. I have a old oil pump that had a flat 1/4 inch plate so I drilled a 5/8's inch hole in the exact place as the M307 and MIG welded my bent tube to the cover. I then modified an old pickup strainer for the pipe. Don't have a picture of the final one yet. Son stole my MIG for the week.
EDIT: Pictures below.
Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994 ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997 Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015
Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.
03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter 65 Formula S Cuda 78 Little Red Express Truck 98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAYS
[Re: Dave_J]
#2754316
03/21/20 08:33 PM
03/21/20 08:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 685 pennsylvania
poboyengineering
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 685
pennsylvania
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I'm curious about the bent pick up. I have an old MP cover, and it has the bottom inlet. My thought was just a straight drop and pull the oil from the top of the screen. Is there an advantage to either arrangement?
It may be ugly, but it sure is slow.
Girls comb their hair in rear view mirrors and the boys try to look so hard....
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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAYS
[Re: poboyengineering]
#2754335
03/21/20 09:31 PM
03/21/20 09:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,769 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,769
Fulton County, PA
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You're trying to fill and pressurize a 1/2'" diameter passage, which feeds all of the oil leaks in the engine and needs to be kept full and under pressure. The pump has to draw oil through whatever plumbing you're using to feed it and accomplish that. Anything you do to relieve the restriction on the inlet side of the pump will help it to do it's job.
As the pump turns it opens an internal space between the rotors that creates a vacuum. The vacuum creates a suction to draw oil in through the inlet(s). Reducing the restriction to the fluid getting to the cavity improves the efficiency of the pump and helps avoid cavitation.
The original configuration is designed to adequately supply the pump requirements at normal RPM levels. Double - or even approach triple - the speed of the pump while using original sized inlet plumbing creates multiple issues.
Anything you do to reduce that restriction to the fluid being drawn into the vacuum created between the rotors, including allowing that fluid to enter both sides of the open space, will help make the pump work more efficiently and without cavitation.
Last edited by CMcAllister; 03/21/20 09:34 PM.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAYS
[Re: poboyengineering]
#2754340
03/21/20 09:51 PM
03/21/20 09:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,122 Auburn WA
Dave_J
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,122
Auburn WA
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You're trying to fill and pressurize a 1/2'" diameter passage, which feeds all of the oil leaks in the engine and needs to be kept full and under pressure. The pump has to draw oil through whatever plumbing you're using to feed it and accomplish that. Anything you do to relieve the restriction on the inlet side of the pump will help it to do it's job.
As the pump turns it opens an internal space between the rotors that creates a vacuum. The vacuum creates a suction to draw oil in through the inlet(s). Reducing the restriction to the fluid getting to the cavity improves the efficiency of the pump and helps avoid cavitation.
The original configuration is designed to adequately supply the pump requirements at normal RPM levels. Double - or even approach triple - the speed of the pump while using original sized inlet plumbing creates multiple issues.
Anything you do to reduce that restriction to the fluid being drawn into the vacuum created between the rotors, including allowing that fluid to enter both sides of the open space, will help make the pump work more efficiently and without cavitation. Hummmm. Hummmm, (Thinking) Dual stock size 3/8's inch pipe should be more than enough. Hummmm. I'm curious about the bent pick up. I have an old MP cover, and it has the bottom inlet. My thought was just a straight drop and pull the oil from the top of the screen. Is there an advantage to either arrangement? I am coming straight out and down with a slight S bend to a modified stock screen. I am a retired low volt electrician so I have bent 1,000 of sticks of EMT. I put a standard S bend in the pipe that is for a wall switch box with my hand 1/2 inch bender. The S bend goes forward and down so it fits the Milodon 10 1/2 inch sump.
Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994 ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997 Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015
Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.
03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter 65 Formula S Cuda 78 Little Red Express Truck 98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAYS
[Re: Dave_J]
#2754343
03/21/20 10:07 PM
03/21/20 10:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 685 pennsylvania
poboyengineering
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 685
pennsylvania
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Gotcha. I thought the small rectangle was the one you were running.
It may be ugly, but it sure is slow.
Girls comb their hair in rear view mirrors and the boys try to look so hard....
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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAYS
[Re: poboyengineering]
#2754366
03/21/20 11:18 PM
03/21/20 11:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,122 Auburn WA
Dave_J
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,122
Auburn WA
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Gotcha. I thought the small rectangle was the one you were running. I still may but to fit the Milodon deep sump I'd need to cut the pipe and weld about 2 inches in. I can do that if I get my TIG working. For some reason it will not start an arc.
Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994 ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997 Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015
Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.
03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter 65 Formula S Cuda 78 Little Red Express Truck 98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAYS
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2754371
03/21/20 11:29 PM
03/21/20 11:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,122 Auburn WA
Dave_J
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,122
Auburn WA
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I hope you are going to put a screen on that pickup. Second picture of the pickup is how I will screen it. Also, pictures show Windage tray. I have cut up that one to fit the 4 inch stroker crank. Stock trays have a curled lip and my pan pushes the tray into the crank. I am going to remove it and just baffel my pan better. I may weld in 8 1/4 inch nuts and then put a 2mm size stainless steel screen down in the bottom so any oil that gets slung off will drip thru and not get picked up again. To the OP, we hijacked your thread. Sorry.
Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994 ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997 Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015
Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.
03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter 65 Formula S Cuda 78 Little Red Express Truck 98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAYS
[Re: Mcode69]
#2754585
03/22/20 02:16 PM
03/22/20 02:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,122 Auburn WA
Dave_J
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,122
Auburn WA
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If I had some louver dies I'd modify a tray too. Best I could do is Plasma cut the slots and hammer the shapes.
Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994 ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997 Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015
Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.
03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter 65 Formula S Cuda 78 Little Red Express Truck 98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAYS
[Re: Mcode69]
#2754611
03/22/20 04:00 PM
03/22/20 04:00 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,352 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,352
Bend,OR USA
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Do you have any A,B,A test results on using it compare to no tray at the track or on a engine or chassis dyno? The reason I'm asking is I was told way back when (before 1988) by one of the fastest NHRA Stock SB Class racers in the country that the stock type windage tray costs power, he thought due to it making the oil bounce back up into the oil cloud surrounding the rotating assembly and not allowing the oil to drain back into the pan, especially above 3500 RPM
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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