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Re: Mechanical roller lifter
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2746472
02/25/20 03:29 PM
02/25/20 03:29 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 625
Oakville, Wa
HOTMOPR
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 625
Oakville, Wa
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Ya it's odd cuz these are like my old crane rollers. No holes or notches in the lifter body. Just nice and smooth.. The only place fluid could go would be to the roller
67 Barracuda, 470" B, Glide, FuelTech FT600, Precision, Ptc, QA1, Calvert, Smith racecraft, Afco, Dana 60. 275 radials
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Re: Mechanical roller lifter
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2746474
02/25/20 03:34 PM
02/25/20 03:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,593
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,593
Great Neck,LI,new york
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If you want a good durable lifter, go w/ the Iskys w/ the bushings. I have the old style Isky Red Zones w/ needle bearings and they've been flawless. Bought them in 2006 before the EZ Roll option was available. Another small detail on the Redzone lifters,,,,,they hit the thicker lifter bore on the megablock 
HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: Mechanical roller lifter
[Re: HOTMOPR]
#2746476
02/25/20 03:43 PM
02/25/20 03:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Ya it's odd cuz these are like my old crane rollers. No holes or notches in the lifter body. Just nice and smooth.. The only place fluid could go would be to the roller If there are no notches or holes in the body, then they don’t have pushrod oiling. Or pressurized axle oiling either.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Mechanical roller lifter
[Re: hemi-itis]
#2746553
02/25/20 08:54 PM
02/25/20 08:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,076
Mooresburg, Tn
'72CudaRacer
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,076
Mooresburg, Tn
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If you want a good durable lifter, go w/ the Iskys w/ the bushings. I have the old style Isky Red Zones w/ needle bearings and they've been flawless. Bought them in 2006 before the EZ Roll option was available. Another small detail on the Redzone lifters,,,,,they hit the thicker lifter bore on the megablock I am following this thread closely, I am building a Mega block for a customer now that has always run a solid flat tappet cam but wants to go to a solid roller cam this time. The Isky Red Zone lifters are on the short list for now. What part of the lifter is hitting the lifter bore? I am assuming the link bar? Is it because the lifter is too short? Any other things to be concerned about? Also what advantage is the AMC lifter over the Mopar(besides the pin oiling)? Thanks, Brian
Last edited by '72CudaRacer; 02/25/20 08:58 PM.
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Re: Mechanical roller lifter
[Re: '72CudaRacer]
#2746583
02/26/20 02:11 AM
02/26/20 02:11 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 625
Oakville, Wa
HOTMOPR
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 625
Oakville, Wa
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67 Barracuda, 470" B, Glide, FuelTech FT600, Precision, Ptc, QA1, Calvert, Smith racecraft, Afco, Dana 60. 275 radials
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Re: Mechanical roller lifter
[Re: HOTMOPR]
#2746668
02/26/20 11:19 AM
02/26/20 11:19 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,593
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,593
Great Neck,LI,new york
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That's kinda what the Red Zones looked like when I bought them,,,,,no pressurized oil into the lifter body.
HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: Mechanical roller lifter
[Re: hemi-itis]
#2746684
02/26/20 12:02 PM
02/26/20 12:02 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 867
Missouri
galen
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 867
Missouri
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I do not know if anyone has run into it. I tried the Morels same body in the pictures in an unbushed world block and I could not build any oil pressure due to the oil band cutouts on the side. Leaked by terrible at full lift. No problem with the comps I ended up putting back. On another note I had Isky rebuild a set of needle bearing redzones and had them converted from needles to bushings a couple of years back. BB Chevy application with oil band but worth checking for mopar. Cant remember the cost but it wasn't terrible.
Last edited by galen; 02/26/20 12:03 PM.
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Re: Mechanical roller lifter
[Re: galen]
#2746688
02/26/20 12:14 PM
02/26/20 12:14 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 724
Lake Villa Il
INTMD8
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 724
Lake Villa Il
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Was the oil band cutout dropping below or protruding above the lifter bore?
69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
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Re: Mechanical roller lifter
[Re: INTMD8]
#2746698
02/26/20 12:35 PM
02/26/20 12:35 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 867
Missouri
galen
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 867
Missouri
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[The world block I had came with a small machined undercut at the top of the lifter bores. It leaked top side at full lift .420 lobe lift. Leaking so bad at top didn't check bottom of bores. I found it prelubing could not build pressure and pulled the valley cover..I wish I had took pictures. Sold the morels to a member on here. May have just been a fluke deal with my block. Purchased it new from indy back in 08. Mock yours up and prelube it before you put it in just to make sure. I was curious if anyone else ran into it.
Last edited by galen; 02/26/20 12:44 PM.
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Re: Mechanical roller lifter
[Re: galen]
#2746705
02/26/20 12:43 PM
02/26/20 12:43 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 724
Lake Villa Il
INTMD8
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 724
Lake Villa Il
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Interesting, thanks for the info.
I'll be running slightly less lobe lift but I will make sure the oil window doesn't make it past the lifter bore in either direction. Thought if it was close on the top I could have the cam ground with a slightly smaller base circle. (assuming there was room for it to drop down in the bore)
69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
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Re: Mechanical roller lifter
[Re: Wirenut]
#2749928
03/07/20 04:51 PM
03/07/20 04:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 108
WNY
Moparrob68
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 108
WNY
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Just wanted to chime in with a few more lessons I learned the hard way about building a BME/World aluminum Hemi.I had a coolant leak into the valley apparently because the sleeves can "settle" in the block. While removing the lifters to retorque the valley studs I found several worn rollers.The original build a few years ago used the Barton
"Ultimate" flat tappet cam and tool steel lifters.After proper break-in with single springs and BR oil the Hemi ran great for about 2 months then flattened half the lobes.
Hemi build #2 I used a Bullet custom roller cam and Crower Enduramax pressure fed bushed roller lifters with Manton pushrods and Stage V rockers hoping my valve train problems would be a thing of the past.The 3940LB Coronet ran great, 9.85@138mph on pump gas for 1 1/2 summers until I found the worn lifters.Long story short, while Thought I had purchased the must durable lifters I could get, on further inspection I found that because these lifters are semi solid body and use a feed hole that is 90* from the roller oil feed rather than an oil band. Measuring from cam lobe to the 0.030 oil hole in the lifter bore bushing I found that it never lines up with the hole in the lifter so the roller bushings were running dry. I contacted Crower to see if an oil slot could be machined in the lifter and they said there isn't enough room. Sso now I have to spend another $1K on a custom LS tall body 0.903 needle bearing lifters with machined oil groove and have my pushrods shortened 0.250. Crower said roller bushings require at least 0.060 oil feed and that full synthetic oil allows the roller to skid instead of roll. They recommend a 50/50 blend. So on to Hemi build #3. Hope this long winded story helps someone.
Last edited by Moparrob68; 03/07/20 05:03 PM.
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Re: Mechanical roller lifter
[Re: Moparrob68]
#2750041
03/08/20 07:43 AM
03/08/20 07:43 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,043
MI, usa
dvw
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,043
MI, usa
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Just wanted to chime in with a few more lessons I learned the hard way about building a BME/World aluminum Hemi.I had a coolant leak into the valley apparently because the sleeves can "settle" in the block. While removing the lifters to retorque the valley studs I found several worn rollers.The original build a few years ago used the Barton
"Ultimate" flat tappet cam and tool steel lifters.After proper break-in with single springs and BR oil the Hemi ran great for about 2 months then flattened half the lobes.
Hemi build #2 I used a Bullet custom roller cam and Crower Enduramax pressure fed bushed roller lifters with Manton pushrods and Stage V rockers hoping my valve train problems would be a thing of the past.The 3940LB Coronet ran great, 9.85@138mph on pump gas for 1 1/2 summers until I found the worn lifters.Long story short, while Thought I had purchased the must durable lifters I could get, on further inspection I found that because these lifters are semi solid body and use a feed hole that is 90* from the roller oil feed rather than an oil band. Measuring from cam lobe to the 0.030 oil hole in the lifter bore bushing I found that it never lines up with the hole in the lifter so the roller bushings were running dry. I contacted Crower to see if an oil slot could be machined in the lifter and they said there isn't enough room. Sso now I have to spend another $1K on a custom LS tall body 0.903 needle bearing lifters with machined oil groove and have my pushrods shortened 0.250. Crower said roller bushings require at least 0.060 oil feed and that full synthetic oil allows the roller to skid instead of roll. They recommend a 50/50 blend. So on to Hemi build #3. Hope this long winded story helps someone. Why can't you open the oil hole in the bushing and groove the bushing from that hole up/down that would intersect the bushing? I've run synthetic with Isky Red Zone bushed for nearly 5 years over 400 pases. 310/805 pressure. still going. Doug
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Re: Mechanical roller lifter
[Re: Moparrob68]
#2750088
03/08/20 10:47 AM
03/08/20 10:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545
So. Burlington, Vt.
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My question is...... where is the edm feed hole for the bearing located in this lifter?
What was the lifter to bore clearance?
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Mechanical roller lifter
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2750092
03/08/20 11:05 AM
03/08/20 11:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545
So. Burlington, Vt.
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This is from a set of Comp 87019’s.
Which is the same as an 892, but without pushrod oiling.
(The 892 is actually for use in a Chevy with .904 lifters, as the oil feed hole to the pushrod is in the wrong location for a Mopar.)
The AMC lifter, 861-16, has the same edm oil hole to the bearing as the 87019(illustrated with the drill bit), but also has the correctly positioned oil feed hole if one wanted pushrod oiling.
If you wanted oiling to the bearing, but didn’t want the pushrod oiling, and didn’t need the offsets....... you could buy 16 pieces of 87016C-1, and 8 pieces of 829-L link bars.
If you buy the 861-16 AMC lifters, you’ll also need to buy the 8 pieces of 829-L link bars.
The pushrod seat heights for the 87019 and 861 are the same, which is .120 higher in the body than the “normal” BB Mopar lifter......the 829(no oil band, no edm oiling to the bearing, no pushrod oiling).
What I’m not certain of is if the oil band length and position is the same between the 87019 and the 861.
If someone has an 861 out of the motor, maybe they could measure from the bottom of the wheel to the bottom and top of the oil band.
The bottom of the band on the 87019 is 1.100” from the bottom of the wheel, and is about .310” tall/wide.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Mechanical roller lifter
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2750119
03/08/20 11:48 AM
03/08/20 11:48 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,686
Mt. Eden Ky.
Hemi Allstate
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,686
Mt. Eden Ky.
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If you wanted oiling to the bearing, but didn’t want the pushrod oiling, and didn’t need the offsets....... you could buy 16 pieces of 87016C-1, and 8 pieces of 829-L link bars. If you buy the 861-16 AMC lifters, you’ll also need to buy the 8 pieces of 829-L link bars. The pushrod seat heights for the 87019 and 861 are the same, which is .120 higher in the body than the “normal” BB Mopar lifter......the 829(no oil band, no edm oiling to the bearing, no pushrod oiling). What I’m not certain of is if the oil band length and position is the same between the 87019 and the 861. If someone has an 861 out of the motor, maybe they could measure from the bottom of the wheel to the bottom and top of the oil band. [/quote]  Dwayne I am using the 87016C -1 lifters that you prescribed for my Hemi back in 2011, and I have no complaints. I am using the World aluminum block with Stage V heads and rockers, Smith Bros push rods are not oiled. Mark
Last edited by Hemi Allstate; 03/08/20 11:54 AM.
1996 Ram 1500 Sport
1968 road runner
1952 Sears Allstate licensed, pump gas, Hemi 5.98 @ 115.73 1.33 60 ft. The best is yet to come. Painless Performance / Street RODDER magazine Top 100 for 2019
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Re: Mechanical roller lifter
[Re: Wirenut]
#2750142
03/08/20 12:48 PM
03/08/20 12:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545
So. Burlington, Vt.
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At .690 lift and an unbushed world block I am deferring to Jonathan Martin of Comp and using the 829. Pin oiling and reasonable cost. 829’s do not have pressurized axle oiling. Just inspect yours for yourself......... how does the pressurized supply in the oil gallery get fed directly to the bearing?
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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