Mechanical roller lifter

Been searching for a good mechanical roller lifter for my new low deck build. Its a unbushed 400 block running a 259*@.050 -.744" .465" lobe lift. solid roller cam and PAC 1325 springs,. I was looking at the crane 66543 lifters. Wondering if anyone had thoughts or recommendations. TIA

Also I run Harland sharps with shaft oiling.

I used Crane roller lifters in my race block. For my 470 dyno engines I used Comp Cams AMC lifters. I like the AMC lifters since they have pin oiling. For some reason the Mopar lifters that Comp makes do not oil the roller bearing pin.

I am not speaking from a user’s standpoint of experience, but I am going to use the needle-less rollers from Isky. Cummins engines have been using this technology for years with literally millions of miles of use. The Isky lifters are expensive, but Im confident enough to lay my own money down for a set.
I have used crower rollers in the past with excellent results. Unfortunately, the style of lifter that I prefer from them has been discontinued.

Please allow me to ask a question that is related to the OP's question:
I am planning a stroker motor build, and I trust the builder, so their recommendations will get the most weight.
I'm going to be using one of the new BME aluminum blocks, at the as delivered bore of 4.5 and although they can use a 4.5 stroke crankshaft without clearancing, because I am only looking for 6XX/7XX HP and torque output, and because I am insisting that it be fed by a 3x2 induction, which will start out using my 3 Promax modded factory 6bbl Holley carbs and either the factory Edelbrock/Chrysler aluminum 6bbl intake OR the Weiand P3690982 6bbl intake, I think going with a 4.25 stroke for a 541 cu in displacement will be the best combo, using Trick Flow 270s and having the intake I use ported to Max Wedge ports to match the heads.
Because of my modest power goals, and the power inherent in the displacement and flow of the heads, I don't think the cam has to be too "radical" so it's possible that I may go solid flat tappet. Although I really like hydraulic roller lifters, Jim Laroy's stance on those gives me pause for concern. He basically wouldn't use hydraulic roller lifters in anything.
So my question is if I wanted to use solid roller lifters with what I expect to be a moderate cam, what solid lifters would require the least maintenance or need to be rebuilt? Is there such a solid roller lifter? Or is the only way to avoid maintenance of the lifters themselves to use hydraulic rollers? I know with solid flat tappet OR solid roller lifters I'd have to check lash, but I really don't want to have to pull lifters and send them off for service periodically.

I've been very happy with the Isky's. Over 400 passes. 285/292 .800" 310/805 pressure. Lash stays consistent.
Doug

Funny you mention that, years back when Isky came out with the Red Zone lifters they advertised all Red Zone lifters had pressurized oil to the needles. I bought a set and they did NOT have that for the Mopar lifter. Since that encounter with "Rich" the supposed owner I will NEVER buy an Isky product

I went with the AMC lifter.

I am currently at a standoff with myself between using .180 offset LO-3772-EZMAX Isky bushed lifters (rated to 1300lbs) or the .210 offset BAM Steel bushing lifters. For some reason that extra .030 of cup offset looks scary to me. The steel bushing BAM's are suppossedly good for 1600 lbs which is impressive and overkill lol.

The fellow that spec'd and ground my new custom solid roller spec'd 350/900 for the spring. What are you running for spring pressure?

Also, the BAM lifters are around $200 cheaper than the top of the line Isky offering.

If you want a good durable lifter, go w/ the Iskys w/ the bushings. I have the old style Isky Red Zones w/ needle bearings and they've been flawless. Bought them in 2006 before the EZ Roll option was available.

Another option to consider. I've not used them yet but bought them for my rebuild as they have good feedback so far.

I put those 861s I bought from you in the 572 project and it was pretty educational for me to prime the oiling system and watch the flow,
compared the 829s I am used to working with which just leak oil from the side clearance but otherwise block flow.....I can see the appeal of the 861.

Of particular interest were comments from a pro stating I was going to flood the top end or leak huge amounts of oil out the bottom
while on the base circle, a whole other topic there, but it doesn't seem either scenario is going to happen just by looking at the oil flow.
Most of the oil goes to the pin/axle, right where we want it.

You need to talk to someone at BME on what type material the lifters your going to use in that block to see if they need to be chromed or not
I've been told that all aluminum blocks with no lifter bushing need chrome lifters to prevent galling

What, like chrome on your bumper, no seriously, false. Built a lot of aluminum block engines,save your aluminum lifter bores till something goes bad. Then bush them.

The Comp roller lifters in my small block have pin oiling.

I’ve used a few Bill Mitchell aluminum blocks(from about 10 years ago)...... they all came with the lifter bores bushed.

I’ve only used one Indy block....... no bushings, no lifter oiling.
These blocks hold a lot of oil in the valley, and the lifters are submerged in oil.

I haven’t seen that motor since I built it, but it’s been running fine since 2011.

Comp 828-16’s(SB) and 829-16’s(BB) have no axle oiling.
Of course, “back in the day”, nothing else did either.

Comp small block roller lifters w/oiling to the bearing.

https://www.compcams.com/endure-x-solid-roller-lifter-set-for-chrysler-273-360.html

My KB block has no lifter bushings and no oil to the lifters. Been fine since 2006.

Which lifters are in that motor? Are they for a stock hemi iron block or are they chrome?

Isky 3472-RH Red Zone.

So I bought the crane ultra lifters. once they showed up I noticed they have a hole in the pushrod cup. does that mean these are pushrod oiling? I cannot find anything that says otherwise. my old crane lifters did not have a hole.
CRN-66543-16

Any thoughts?

Pretty simple....... blow air(or carb cleaner, etc) into the hole and see where it goes.

Ya it's odd cuz these are like my old crane rollers. No holes or notches in the lifter body. Just nice and smooth.. The only place fluid could go would be to the roller

Another small detail on the Redzone lifters,,,,,they hit the thicker lifter bore on the megablock

If there are no notches or holes in the body, then they don’t have pushrod oiling.

Or pressurized axle oiling either.

Those Morel lifters look promising

I am following this thread closely, I am building a Mega block for a customer now that has always run a solid flat tappet cam but wants to go to a solid roller cam this time. The Isky Red Zone lifters are on the short list for now. What part of the lifter is hitting the lifter bore? I am assuming the link bar? Is it because the lifter is too short? Any other things to be concerned about? Also what advantage is the AMC lifter over the Mopar(besides the pin oiling)?

Thanks, Brian

here they are

That's kinda what the Red Zones looked like when I bought them,,,,,no pressurized oil into the lifter body.

I do not know if anyone has run into it. I tried the Morels same body in the pictures in an unbushed world block and I could not build any oil pressure due to the oil band cutouts on the side. Leaked by terrible at full lift. No problem with the comps I ended up putting back. On another note I had Isky rebuild a set of needle bearing redzones and had them converted from needles to bushings a couple of years back. BB Chevy application with oil band but worth checking for mopar. Cant remember the cost but it wasn't terrible.

Was the oil band cutout dropping below or protruding above the lifter bore?

[The world block I had came with a small machined undercut at the top of the lifter bores. It leaked top side at full lift .420 lobe lift. Leaking so bad at top didn't check bottom of bores. I found it prelubing could not build pressure and pulled the valley cover..I wish I had took pictures. Sold the morels to a member on here. May have just been a fluke deal with my block. Purchased it new from indy back in 08. Mock yours up and prelube it before you put it in just to make sure. I was curious if anyone else ran into it.

Interesting, thanks for the info.

I'll be running slightly less lobe lift but I will make sure the oil window doesn't make it past the lifter bore in either direction. Thought if it was close on the top I could have the cam ground with a slightly smaller base circle. (assuming there was room for it to drop down in the bore)

I could not see the cutout at the top but it was close enough it leaked past.

Fwiw I went back and forth re 861 vs 829. At .690 lift and an unbushed world block I am deferring to Jonathan Martin of Comp and using the 829. Pin oiling and reasonable cost. The isky and morel are great but I can’t afford either. Comp is not rebuilding anything according th him
G

Just wanted to chime in with a few more lessons I learned the hard way about building a BME/World aluminum Hemi.I had a coolant leak into the valley apparently because the sleeves can "settle" in the block. While removing the lifters to retorque the valley studs I found several worn rollers.The original build a few years ago used the Barton
"Ultimate" flat tappet cam and tool steel lifters.After proper break-in with single springs and BR oil the Hemi ran great for about 2 months then flattened half the lobes.
Hemi build #2 I used a Bullet custom roller cam and Crower Enduramax pressure fed bushed roller lifters with Manton pushrods and Stage V rockers hoping my valve train problems would be a thing of the past.The 3940LB Coronet ran great, 9.85@138mph on pump gas for 1 1/2 summers until I found the worn lifters.Long story short, while Thought I had purchased the must durable lifters I could get, on further inspection I found that because these lifters are semi solid body and use a feed hole that is 90* from the roller oil feed rather than an oil band. Measuring from cam lobe to the 0.030 oil hole in the lifter bore bushing I found that it never lines up with the hole in the lifter so the roller bushings were running dry. I contacted Crower to see if an oil slot could be machined in the lifter and they said there isn't enough room. Sso now I have to spend another $1K on a custom LS tall body 0.903 needle bearing lifters with machined oil groove and have my pushrods shortened 0.250. Crower said roller bushings require at least 0.060 oil feed and that full synthetic oil allows the roller to skid instead of roll. They recommend a 50/50 blend. So on to Hemi build #3. Hope this long winded story helps someone.

Why can't you open the oil hole in the bushing and groove the bushing from that hole up/down that would intersect the bushing? I've run synthetic with Isky Red Zone bushed for nearly 5 years over 400 pases. 310/805 pressure. still going.
Doug

My question is...... where is the edm feed hole for the bearing located in this lifter?

What was the lifter to bore clearance?

This is from a set of Comp 87019’s.
Which is the same as an 892, but without pushrod oiling.
(The 892 is actually for use in a Chevy with .904 lifters, as the oil feed hole to the pushrod is in the wrong location for a Mopar.)

The AMC lifter, 861-16, has the same edm oil hole to the bearing as the 87019(illustrated with the drill bit), but also has the correctly positioned oil feed hole if one wanted pushrod oiling.

If you wanted oiling to the bearing, but didn’t want the pushrod oiling, and didn’t need the offsets....... you could buy 16 pieces of 87016C-1, and 8 pieces of 829-L link bars.

If you buy the 861-16 AMC lifters, you’ll also need to buy the 8 pieces of 829-L link bars.

The pushrod seat heights for the 87019 and 861 are the same, which is .120 higher in the body than the “normal” BB Mopar lifter......the 829(no oil band, no edm oiling to the bearing, no pushrod oiling).

What I’m not certain of is if the oil band length and position is the same between the 87019 and the 861.
If someone has an 861 out of the motor, maybe they could measure from the bottom of the wheel to the bottom and top of the oil band.

The bottom of the band on the 87019 is 1.100” from the bottom of the wheel, and is about .310” tall/wide.

If you wanted oiling to the bearing, but didn’t want the pushrod oiling, and didn’t need the offsets....... you could buy 16 pieces of 87016C-1, and 8 pieces of 829-L link bars.

If you buy the 861-16 AMC lifters, you’ll also need to buy the 8 pieces of 829-L link bars.

The pushrod seat heights for the 87019 and 861 are the same, which is .120 higher in the body than the “normal” BB Mopar lifter......the 829(no oil band, no edm oiling to the bearing, no pushrod oiling).

What I’m not certain of is if the oil band length and position is the same between the 87019 and the 861.
If someone has an 861 out of the motor, maybe they could measure from the bottom of the wheel to the bottom and top of the oil band. [/quote]



Dwayne I am using the 87016C -1 lifters that you prescribed for my Hemi back in 2011, and I have no complaints. I am using the World aluminum block with Stage V heads and rockers, Smith Bros push rods are not oiled.

Mark

829’s do not have pressurized axle oiling.

Just inspect yours for yourself......... how does the pressurized supply in the oil gallery get fed directly to the bearing?

I ran into this a couple of times where Comp published information saying the 829 provided oil to the bearing but it doesn't. I think someone at Comp just messed up and got their part numbers confused. The issue is that then people read that info and believe it and then other folks don't know what to believe.

Lifter to bushing clearance = 0.002
The EDM oil feed is on the side of the lifter 90* from the roller same as the comp
What is the body height of the 87016c ? they look short
My Crower 66233E are 1.950 body height and they still sit 0.500 does in the bushing and hang over 0.500 below the bushing
Have you used the comp 96829-16 Sportsman lifters? they look taller in the online catalog if that means anything

On the 87016, from the bottom of the wheel to the top of the body is 1.810”.

From the bottom of the wheel to the center of the link bar attaching screw is about 3.050”.
They are designed to be able to be used with blocks that have tall lifter bores.
I used them in a World aluminum block with a .484 lobe lift cam.

Here is a pic of an Isky Red Zone that has the flats on the sides of the body like yours.
They have the EDM holes done the same as well........ but they have added an oil band to get the oil from the gallery to the EDM holes.

As you’ve discovered....... without “connecting the dots”...... the EDM holes aren’t much help.

I have a few customers running the Sportsman lifters with no problems, but they are all running stock blocks.
However, I don’t think there would be any issue running them in a block set up like yours.
For the BB Mopar application, they do not pushrod oil.

Do they make a roller lifter that also feeds oil to the push rods, if so what part# are they, would like to have push rod oiling.

Thanks

The Morels I posted have pushrod oiling

do you have Morel part# ? Thanks (5260)?

Do you know the dimensions and oil band location on the Sportsman lifters?

There are a couple of pics in the link:

The band is quite narrow, so you’d probably have to make a little vertical groove off your feed hole in the bushing to have the groove in the lifter seeing pressure full time.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...-roller-lifters-with-bronze-bushing.html

Just received my 829s they do have pin oiling holes one on each side within the very narrow oil band . .690 lift and the band stays well within the lifter bore . Have not measured that yet but will try
G

Any way you could post a pic of these?

They are straight “829’s”....... not 96829’s, correct?

In the past, 829’s have had smooth bodies without any oil band.

Top- 829

Bottom- 96829

The ones I have are #6774

Yes,the link bars hit the lifter boss so the wheel did not hit the cam lobe.

Apologies they are 96829 as shown in your pic.

I finally got my lifter oiling problem straightened out. I ended up machining an oil slot in the lifter body and drilling a 0.060 hole to feed the EDM hole. They are at Crower getting rebuilt right now.

Who has bushing lifter with hppo & push rod oiling