Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: fbs63]
#2723221
12/11/19 11:45 AM
12/11/19 11:45 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
For a BB Mopar?
Cast cores used with roller lifters are made of a different material than what is used with flat faced tappets.
AFAIK, there are no SADI cores(ductile iron, the material used for roller lifters) made to fit BB Mopars.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: markz528]
#2723234
12/11/19 12:21 PM
12/11/19 12:21 PM
|
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 724 Lake Villa Il
INTMD8
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 724
Lake Villa Il
|
My biggest thing is to make sure that the new motor cam does not experience any issues..............
I wouldn't personally run a 5150 core with those specs. You would have better reliability out of an 8620 core but of course need to make sure spring pressure and everything else in the valvetrain is correct. JMO
69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
|
|
|
Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2723239
12/11/19 12:27 PM
12/11/19 12:27 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,279 Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,279
Shelby Twp. Mi
|
There are no cast roller cores for BB Mopars.
Copper color between the lobes is 8620 material. Black between the lobes is usually 5150 material.
The heat treat goes deeper on the 5150, which allows for more manipulation for putting a wider variety of lifts and LSA’s on the core.
Both are steel billet. Yes, his was a steel billet but likely (99.99%) it was as Fast said 5150 base. I vaguely remember him saying that Comp would offer him no $break$ for a replacement and they did say that the 8620 SHOULD have been HIS request for his application AND would be a $ upcharge verses the 5150 cores.
|
|
|
Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: HardcoreB]
#2723248
12/11/19 01:05 PM
12/11/19 01:05 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
I haven’t had any problems with the 5150 cores. That’s what most of the BB Mopar cores are these days. They simply don’t always have 8620 cores that are suitable for every combination. And if they do, they’re usually more $$$.
Unless Marks cam looks way worse in person than in the pics...... I still say it looks pretty normal to me.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: fbs63]
#2723304
12/11/19 05:00 PM
12/11/19 05:00 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,882 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,882
Bend,OR USA
|
I've had some hydraulic rollers I would swear were cast. Years ago, early to mid 1970s, I had two Isky solid rollers that I'm sure where cast core camshafts also None bought since from any other company
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
|
|
|
Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: BradH]
#2723312
12/11/19 05:19 PM
12/11/19 05:19 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,913 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
|
master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,913
Pattison Texas
|
I'm DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!! I have a BLACK CORE CAM!!! ( Hee hee! ) NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO,, dont take it apart & start over
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
|
|
|
Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: n20mstr]
#2723358
12/11/19 08:24 PM
12/11/19 08:24 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,364 Morrow, OH
markz528
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,364
Morrow, OH
|
Is BES ok with reusing that cam? Maybe now is the time to let him spec your new one ? The cam is being replaced. New one is on its way. That was always the plan.
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
|
|
|
Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: markz528]
#2723408
12/12/19 09:07 AM
12/12/19 09:07 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,048 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,048
S.E. Michigan
|
If it's still straight and otherwise in good shape, might be a nice one to regrind, if there's enough meat there in the right places to create a different profile.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
|
|
|
Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2723554
12/12/19 06:56 PM
12/12/19 06:56 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,364 Morrow, OH
markz528
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,364
Morrow, OH
|
Looked at it some more tonight.
It’s the worst on the opening side. At max lift not too bad and gets worse on the closing side but not as bad as the opening side. Base has no marks.
The worst groove is 0.0008 inches - so almost a thousandths. I actually thought it would be worse.
The worst ones have pretty significant burrs.
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
|
|
|
Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2723581
12/12/19 08:27 PM
12/12/19 08:27 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,364 Morrow, OH
markz528
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,364
Morrow, OH
|
Have you compared the width of the contact portion of the roller wheel versus the edges of the contact patch on the lobe? I have not but it looks to be pretty much the width of the roller.
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
|
|
|
Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: markz528]
#2723596
12/12/19 10:07 PM
12/12/19 10:07 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,364 Morrow, OH
markz528
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,364
Morrow, OH
|
Some additional pictures showing the damage better.
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
|
|
|
Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: markz528]
#2723633
12/13/19 01:29 AM
12/13/19 01:29 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,882 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,882
Bend,OR USA
|
it looks like one side of that lifter is hitting the cam lobe before the other side, it looks like it is loosing contact with the lobe after max lift I would replace (or have them rebuilt with new wheels, axles and bearings) all the lifters off of the lobes that look like that
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/13/19 01:32 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
|
|
|
Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: BradH]
#2723687
12/13/19 10:13 AM
12/13/19 10:13 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
Still looks totally normal to me. The more pics I see the more normal it looks.
All 16 lobes on the cam I posted the pic of have the same impressions on the opening side, in the area where the big change in velocity and pressure angle occurs.
Anyone got a pic of a typical drag race roller cam, that’s been run with typical drag race spring pressures for 100 or more passes that doesn’t have those marks on the opening side? Let’s see some pics and specs.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2723697
12/13/19 10:54 AM
12/13/19 10:54 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,279 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
|
"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,279
PA.
|
.0008 Give me a break. 😂 Lmao
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.38@138.67
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
|
|
|
Re: Why did my Cam Fail????
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2723941
12/14/19 10:17 AM
12/14/19 10:17 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,555 PA
moparacer
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,555
PA
|
I have a Bullet cam that looks just like that. And it eat a lifter and screwed it up....I could take some pictures and you wouldn't be able tell them from yours. When I first switched from a solid to a roller in my big block it was even worse. We sent the cam back to Bullet and they checked the hardness and it was ok, reground it, I put it back in and it did it again. I ended up upping the spring pressure and it helped, but I don't think I ever totally eliminated it. Since then I have been through several different lifter styles, cams and even blocks and it has always done it to some extent. I have to pull the engine and go through it here shortly and its got a few hundred passes on it and I bet there is some evidence of it still doing it.
I would like to know what the issue is if anyone ever figures it out. I have a theory that it might be related to the roller diameter, lobe profile and the geometry of the lifter bores, but that is just a guess.
Last edited by moparacer; 12/14/19 10:21 AM.
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119 68 Dart 502 BB 5.44-126 414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
|
|
|
|
|