|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: Marq]
#27159
03/19/07 11:14 PM
03/19/07 11:14 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
a ) With epoxy paints there is usually more surface preparation required than say a polyurathane or a Tremclad/Rustoleum Enamel. With the Pettit brand the surface preparation was enough to scare off most boating 'do-it-yourselfers'. IF you were to give consideration to an epoxy base paint you DEFINITELY should research what surface preparation or base coats you will HAVE TO DO according to that paint manufacturer. In some cases the surface preparation may be minimal and ideal for a 'do-it-yourselfer'... OR in some cases it may be a nightmare scenario with a lot of pre-painting work that will make it not seem like the right route to take. An epoxy paint should have superior adhesion and hardness... BUT that very hardness may be the downfall in the automotive situation where the 'skin' has zero flexibility. Put it on a rubber bumper and it 'may' crack off when the bumper is bumped for example. Even a road chip may be sufficient to chip a chunk of it when hit hard enough - rather than flexing with the impact. Again, you need to see what the particular paint manufacturer has to say about the flexibility of the paint on a specific type of surface...
b )That having been said... I would restrict my search of colors and product with Top Secret to their TS-4 paint - which is a ONE PART POLYURATHANE... ( notice that I am deliberately choosing their one-part polyurathane over their epoxy paint... )
Marq: Everything you said about epoxies seems to be true. But I would add that the TS-100 1-part epoxy isn't a true epoxy at all. It's actually a silicon-based product with some epoxy as well as urethane resins. I'm not trying to be a cheerleader for Top Secret ... just wanted to make sure everybody got the whole story on TS-100. You shouldn't compare the Pettit Epoxy to TS-100. It can be painted on bare metal ... even works on vinyl, apparently is very flexible.
But again, we can't really know anything until we test it, and I'll let you guys know as soon as I can.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: kenzo42]
#27160
03/20/07 01:34 AM
03/20/07 01:34 AM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
Aussie, any updates w/ the Miata?
We're suffering through a pretty bad drought in AUS at the moment and we aren't allowed to wash a car at home unless it is with tank water, so I have only washed my car once since the new year. So if the Brightside will stand up to 3 months of zero upkeep and still look like this, then it should be pretty good once I'm able to polish it all properly.
So here is an evening shot of the car after I washed it last weekend.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27161
03/20/07 02:25 AM
03/20/07 02:25 AM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
>Marq: Everything you said about epoxies seems to be true. But I would add that the TS-100 1-part epoxy isn't a true epoxy at all. It's actually a silicon-based product with some epoxy as well as urethane resins. ******************* I think this is the same story as the Pettit Easypoxy - the name sure sounds like an epoxy, but check the description: "Highest Gloss Topside Enamel
Tough, Weather Resistant Finish
Easy to Apply, Excellent Brushability"
"Easypoxy is a highly rated, one-part polyurethane topside paint improved by the addition of silicone for a brilliant shine and easy brushability. It also contains ultraviolet filters which enhance the already superior gloss retention and durability of polyurethane. This results in a topside finish that is exceptionally easy to apply and produces a lasting gelcoat-like brilliance, with a minimum of effort. Easypoxy is available in white and twenty-five popular topside colors." It sounds like the Pettit Easypoxy and TS-100 are very similar products - neither of which seems to have the difficult/complicated preparation steps of a true epoxy like Marq has described - actually largely the same as Brightsides - in fact it sounds like one or both of them may even be superior for a DTM application. Maybe they are sort of the "next generation" of modified urethane for the roll/brush-on application? >But again, we can't really know anything until we test it, and I'll let you guys know as soon as I can. ***************** That's EXACTLY what I wanted to hear!!! Keep us posted, I'll be checking back daily until you give us the goods! Hey, any chance that (as a paying customer) you can get them to send you some color chips for their colors in the dark red/burgundy range - or better yet get them to send them to ME??? BTW apparently a phone call works much better than an email - I still haven't heard a thing back from Top Secret. Marq: I appreciate the color-mixing pointers and your shared admiration for the " deep wine red " color - I refer to it as burgundy only because it's very close to the original "Flambeau Burgundy" Pontiac factory color. Of course this is the same company that decided to use the name "Carousel Red" (commonly seen on the '69 Judge) to describe the Chevy "Hugger Orange". Most will agree, there's absolutely nothing red about it.  As for my "burgundy", I've never seen a color so striking on a '69 GTO, and I do think anything else would be 2nd best. You have strengthened my resolve to find a way to get it. Still hoping to find a way to get ahold of some Top Secret paint chips. Thorn: I see you're just down in F-ville. I work in Springdale, and live in Rogers near the lake. Glad to hear you like the color, too - even if it's going on a FORD.   Stay tuned into this thread and I'll let you know what I find out about trying to get it in rollable urethane (or otherwise) form. Chris
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27162
03/20/07 12:40 PM
03/20/07 12:40 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Here's a preview of the buffing taken with my cell. Notice the overhead light reflection in the first shot, the second shows a little of the surface before buffing in the lower section of the frame. Hope to be finished this week.  
Last edited by LUV4x4; 03/20/07 12:43 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27163
03/20/07 01:32 PM
03/20/07 01:32 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
Ok ... I talked to a technical guy at Top Secret Coatings:
http://www.topsecretcoatings.com/automotive_paint.htm
I'm going to be trying the TS-100 1-part epoxy.
He raves about the TS-100 1-part epoxy ... he says it has an "85-90%" gloss rating. Whereas most automotive paints have a 75% gloss rating. He says it will last a very very long time. Doesn't need a primer coat -- gan go right onto bare metal. Very good self-leveling. $84.00 per gallon. This is a new formula, and they are thrilled with it. He reeled off a long list of many industries using it -- military, etc. The one that stuck in my head is the fishing lure industry ... he says they can't get enough of it.
One thing to keep in mind, tho ... if you try to paint on top of TS-100, you might have compatibility problems, depending how the new paint is thinned. If it uses mineral spirits-type of thinner, it will be fine. But their TS-2 2-part polyurethane would have a bad reaction.
Their TS-2 (2-part polyurethane) is tougher. Costs $103.00 per gallon. Contains Isocyanates. But has slightly lower gloss than the TS-100 epoxy and doesn't self-level as well.
Their TS-4 urethane reinforced alkyd seems to be similar to Interlux Brightside ... he says it's much better than Rustoleum ... "A very good value for the money." He said this was a precursor to the TS-100.
Basically, every time I asked about any of their products, he ended up going back to TS-100 1-part epoxy. They are obviously very proud and excited about this product. It wasn't a sales pitch, it was obvious he believed in it.
I've got a quart of glossy white TS-100 coming, and I'll post results on this forum when I've had a chance to try it out.
Wow, Looks like I have stirred up a bee's nest with the top secret stuff. I'm glad you guys know enough about paint to ask the right questions to the tech people. I can hold my own when it comes to electronics and computers, but this fixing up cars thing is a new hobby for me. It still looks like I'm few weeks/months away from laying down any paint myself, so I'm just gonna continue reading and learning. I'll probably try one of the top secret paints when I finally get to that point, so I'll be really interested in any results you have before I start my experiments.
Last edited by Tony Counts; 03/20/07 01:33 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27164
03/20/07 04:02 PM
03/20/07 04:02 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
Here's a preview of the buffing taken with my cell.
Notice the overhead light reflection in the first shot, the second shows a little of the surface before buffing in the lower section of the frame.
Hope to be finished this week.
If you use a good cutting compound and a cutting pad on your polisher, you should be able to get rid of pretty much all of the orange peel in the second shot. The shine is really good but with a little more polishing you could have it looking perfect.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27165
03/20/07 04:35 PM
03/20/07 04:35 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Im sure this question has been asked before but... What kind of compound and pad do you recommend Ausie Driver? Im getting all my supplies and Im interested to find out what people are using.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27166
03/20/07 05:27 PM
03/20/07 05:27 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
Im sure this question has been asked before but... What kind of compound and pad do you recommend Ausie Driver? Im getting all my supplies and Im interested to find out what people are using.
I have most of the Poorboy's range of polishes etc and I use Wolfgang Buffing Pads (I have 2 of each of their pads) and I prefer to use my Random Orbital polisher which has similar specs to a PC 7424.
But I'm not saying that these products are the only ones that will get the job done. Basically any of the high-end product lines that have cutting compounds/swirl removers/polishes/waxes/synthetic sealants will potentially produce a perfect finish.
Check out http://autopia.org/forum/guide-detailing/ for a lot more detailed information.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27167
03/20/07 08:42 PM
03/20/07 08:42 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27168
03/20/07 09:23 PM
03/20/07 09:23 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Luv4x4 ... that looks really good. I have a few questions:
- Did you use a primer coat?
- How much did you thin the rustoleum?
- How many coats?
- Did you wetsand every two coats? (what grits?)
- What kind of polishing compound did you use?
- Which polisher machine?
- Which pads?
- As shown in the pics, do you have some wax on the truck, or is it just the paint giving that gloss?
Can you give a step-by-step account of what you did? Thanks for sharing your experience with this method.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27169
03/20/07 10:38 PM
03/20/07 10:38 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Thanks Would like to say first off, for the easily threatened paint and or body guys out there who feel it necessary to send negative, accusing emails to me to the tune of, "what a waste of time and materials", " taking food out my kids mouths", "hope that paint job falls off in the parking lott, we're professionals for a reason" blah blah blah etc, etc... spare me, don't know if it has originated from here or the other thread I have posted to regarding this process... nor do I give a rat's behind. You won't hear me raggin on someone for fixing their own computer, it is YOURS after all. Allrighty then, now that I got that off my chest. I certainly don't mind contributing to what has been an awesome subject, and frankly one of the most useful topics I have found on what has become of the Internet. But honestly, I applied what I learned from reading this thread and putting in the practice time on a few pieces of metal just to become familiar with how the paint and rollers react from loading to near the end of the final roll-over. I found several methods of minimizing the tiny bubbles, but found they were mostly unavoidable... but with a little work and attention to detail they can be conquered. Except for the spots I had to repair in the prep stages, I did not primer coat the truck, once again I took my time feather sanding the deeper scratches and filling some with bond filler epoxy. Tig welded,& applied rust converter to the worst spots, filled, sanded and spot primed. Will stress again, I took my time. Thinning: The first batch, about a pint, I thinned about 40%, not wanting to stand around and stir, I came up with something I feel worked better. I had 2 plastic mixing cups and would simply pour the mix from one into the other, slowly, several times. I did notice for my climate and conditions it seemed a little thin and tended to run easier, BUT...the good thing about this was it gives allot more time to work the paint. Which was in fact a huge factor in the final outcome, not being in a hurry to move on to the next panel until I was satisfied I had the bubbles gone, settled and I hadn’t missed any runs. I used the small foam detail brushes where needed and those spots turned out just a good, some better...I actually wondered what it would look like to do a whole car with the solid foam stick brushes, the paint leveled just the same. I did wetsand after each even coat, starting with 800 and ending with 2000(color sanding), I put on 10 coats total...very thin coats. Toward the end, I found it better to apply as if I were pressing and forcing the paint out of the roller, changing directions, using shorts strokes while the paint was still fresh off the roller, then as it began to "flash" I would pay attention to rolling over and out the edge marks left by the roller. Timed right, they disappear into the paint. I had originaly planned to wait 3 weeks or so to let the paint "harden", but I had emailed the original author of this thread and he advised to buff it after an overnight drying, as it was much easier to buff while the paint was still "soft" I totaly agree there, I had actually waited 2 days. I used 3M PerfectII compound and polish glaze #'s 5995,5973 and their buffing wheel # 5711 on a Makita car polisher similar to the 9227 @ about 1800-2500 rpm. Taking care not to burn the edges etc. Be sure to wash with a good mitt afterward to remove any leftover compound, was told it sticks like crazy if left to harden. Finally, those pics are just after polishing, wash and dry. Just after those pictures I waxed with good ole Turtle wax hard shell. In comparison the shine looked pretty much the same, couldn't tell much difference from a cell phone picture or in person. I have some other notes etc, for those interested here http://forums.luvtruck.com/viewtopic.php?t=12850Thanks also to 'bighappy' from Luvtruck.com, for pointing me in this threads direction to start with. I hope any of this helps someone to get the results and satisfaction I achieved. Best of luck...& Take your time
Last edited by 69DartGT; 03/21/07 09:45 AM.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27170
03/21/07 02:22 AM
03/21/07 02:22 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 40
Bakersfield, CA
kenzo42
member
|
member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 40
Bakersfield, CA
|
Looks awesome Aussie. Too bad about the drought. Miata + hardtop = HAWTNESS! In your opinion, do you think the Brightside will keep it's shine? Quote:
Quote:
Aussie, any updates w/ the Miata?
We're suffering through a pretty bad drought in AUS at the moment and we aren't allowed to wash a car at home unless it is with tank water, so I have only washed my car once since the new year. So if the Brightside will stand up to 3 months of zero upkeep and still look like this, then it should be pretty good once I'm able to polish it all properly.
So here is an evening shot of the car after I washed it last weekend.
Last edited by kenzo42; 03/21/07 02:24 AM.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: kenzo42]
#27171
03/21/07 04:18 AM
03/21/07 04:18 AM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
Looks awesome Aussie. Too bad about the drought.
Miata + hardtop = HAWTNESS!
In your opinion, do you think the Brightside will keep it's shine?
Brightside is like any other paint as it will fade over time unless it is maintained/cared for. But if it is cared for in a reasonable manner, I don't see any reason why it won't perform as well as any single stage automotive paints.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27172
03/21/07 09:31 AM
03/21/07 09:31 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220
toronto canada
69chargeryeehaa
OP
pro stock
|
OP
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220
toronto canada
|
LUV4X4 - awesome job on the truck!!    I read the whole thread on your link, no wonder my photobucket bandwidth is exceeded every week!!! I was trying to figure out why!!! I'm glad it worked out for you, it just goes to show that anyone can do a really good paintjob without killing the wallet, and then have the priceless moments saying you painted you car with a roller!!! Overall the process is very easy, especially when compared to spraying paint, and the biggest factor of not making a huge mess and not needing expensive tools/equipment to pull off a respectable paintjob. Now that you've gone thru the learning expirence, i'm sure your next time around will be much eaiser since you know what to expect. If your paitient thru the whole process, don't rush thru prep and paint, you will have an excellent paint job just like all the members here.!!!  And as for the paint not lasting, ect...it's all bull crap, like i mentioned before everyone is thinking about this rust paint as paint that fades, and it will, but most of the expirences people have is with mail boxes, and wheel barrows, that never see any maintance at all. I'd love to see how even the highest quality paint (either single stage or BC/CC) would hold up to the elements with NO maintance, i would'nt be suppriesd to find that auto paint would most likely not even be as durrable as rust paint. If you take care of your paint with average maintance, the paint DOES hold up extreemly well; my car has for 7yrs now; i'm not only the president, but i'm also a client!!! 
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
#27173
03/21/07 03:35 PM
03/21/07 03:35 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Thanks Martin Props mean alot coming from the 'president' Looks like I will have another project in a few weeks. My son in the process of buying himself an 89 Chevy truck, and has already hinted at the old man to help him paint it.  Looking forward to it, my project was alot of fun and very rewarding. In fact, since Saturday, even before I had polished it, had 3 drive up or honk at the stop light offers to buy my LUV... I of course replied "no way". Will be open to offers to paint others rides tho, have them do the main prep and I'll do the paint and finish work for some parts money.....hmmmm Thanks again!
Last edited by LUV4x4; 03/21/07 11:56 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
#27174
03/21/07 03:37 PM
03/21/07 03:37 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Just had a thought... Most people don't know this, but all these Rustoleum type paints are Alkyd enamels...this type of paint has been around since the 1920s when Du Pont invented it as a (more expensive) alternative to nitrocellulose laquer. The new paint was called Dulux, and was a "synthetic" paint because the alkyd resin base was...well, synthetic. Dulux was used as OEM paint on a lot of cars in the 50's and 60's...the Du Pont paint chips for my '60 Olds list numbers for both Duco laquer and Dulux synthetic enamel. You can still buy synthetic enamel at most auto body supply stores. It's slowly being phased out...they sell a lot more acryllic enamel, but it's still sold by many manufacturers as a "budget" line. If there is a color you just HAVE to have, you could probably just go to the nearest auto paint supplier and have them mix up a gallon of whatever it is you want. Price is proabably around $50 a gallon...more than Rustoleum, but you have a much wider choice of colors. The exact forumula will differ from Rustoleum, but the basic chemistry is the same. I honestly don't see why it would go down any different than all the other alkyd enamels we've been using. Everone says not to even try this with a metallic color, but I'm half tempted to get a quart of something metallic just to see what would happen. Might look horrible...who knows. If I ever have an extra $20 and some spare time I'll try it  . Anyway, just a thought. And if anyone makes fun of your paint, just tell them it's a synthetic  .
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27175
03/21/07 04:58 PM
03/21/07 04:58 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Chris...my first car was a Pontiac Catalina...it's little brother was the Tempist. I've always wanted to get back behind the wheel of a Pontiac. One thing lead to another and I ended up with a '68 Mustang the summer of '87. 20 years later my wife bought me '69 F-100. They both need paint and some restoration work. I haven't done any body work since '86. I'm really looking forward to working on something.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27176
03/22/07 09:28 AM
03/22/07 09:28 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 30
Ohio
pdqvsix
member
|
member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 30
Ohio
|
I started my 2nd roller paint job yesterday on my ford tempo it's just a runabout daily driver but i still want it to look good since it's very dependable and easy on gas.
I'm painting it rustoleum gloss black professional and this time around it is definately much easier to do the roller painting then the first time.
The 1st car i did in gloss white rustoleum professional is still just like when i painted it last summer as far as any issue with fading goes,haven't noticed any. My thoughts about if it does fade, i won't really care it will just mean i will have a new roller rustoleum paint job in a very short time. I said it before and i'll say it again this roller painting is just to easy.
Last edited by pdqvsix; 03/22/07 12:46 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
