Re: Automotive machine shops WTH?
[Re: sasquatch]
#2686690
08/12/19 12:03 AM
08/12/19 12:03 AM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 632 Deep DEEP SOUTH
LAD 524
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 632
Deep DEEP SOUTH
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and that list is getting shorter by the minute. It seems like I here about another shop auction every week or so. Just like a lot of racers a lot of shop owners are hanging up their spurs. I have the pleasure of dealing with some really top notch shops and the vast majority will privately tell you that they are done or thinking hard about being done. A LOT of them. One even made the comment that in 10 years you will not be able to give shop machines away. It also speaks to our society, no body fixes or builds things. Just toss it and get another. Todd This ^^^^^^^ The times, the are a.....nah, they've already changed. And they gonna change even more.
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Re: Automotive machine shops WTH?
[Re: AndyF]
#2686725
08/12/19 08:13 AM
08/12/19 08:13 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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It is super expensive to custom build an engine these days. Shops have a lot of expenses that they have to cover so someone has to pay for it. The shop I work with has cut way back on "oddball" jobs since they usually don't pay very well. He doesn't do Flathead Fords anymore or old tractor engines or weird stuff like 50's Cadillac engines. The weird stuff requires a ton of time and most of the customers aren't willing to pay for it. A lot of guys who have weird engines are guys who have owned them for a long time and they still think that a full engine rebuild should be around $1500. So the guys who have the weird stuff that takes a lot of extra time are the same guys who don't want to pay much.
Crate engines wiped out a bunch of business around here. The local tracks switched over to crate engine racing which is probably good for everyone but it does wipe out a lot of business for the shops. There are still a lot of bracket racers who want custom engines built and there are a fair number of guys with muscle cars who aren't afraid of spending $10,000 to $15,000 for a ground up stroker build. But most of the rebuild business has gone away over the past 20 years. The engines in new cars last a long time now so there is no need for rebuilds. I have a Toyota 4Runner with 220,000 miles on it and it doesn't use any oil. Still has the original exhaust system on it. When I was a kid my dad rebuilt the engines in our cars at 100,000 miles. They just didn't last much past that back then. To add one thing to andys very well written post, very few people today will rebuild an engine from a car or truck. Walk through a wrecking yard. They are full of late model stuff that looks like with a wash and wax you could drive them. 8, maybe 10 years old, almost perfect in every way and there they are. Today, when a car is 10 years old the owners look at the value of the vehicle and say why spend 7-8k to R&R and rebuild the engine in this thing when the whole vehicle is worth less than that? So they junk it and move on. No reason to put cash in something that doesn't meet the value. Our society has lost what value is. Most stuff today is just junk. That's why it has so little value. Decades of manipulation of the money, artificially low interest rates, credit to anyone with a job without regard to ability to pay has devalued everything. The hidden tax of inflation has so devalued the dollar that it's worth about .02 of what it was just over 100 years ago. Unless something big changes quickly, the engine building business will be essentially dead. The machines and tooling will be worthless here, but third world toilets will buy them up, as they will be rebuilding the junk they have. Or tuning out low grade reman crap for poverty wages for use in the US market. It's just the sad fact. The automobile, once the proud banner of American pride, freedom and affluence has become a Marxist utilitarian tool at best. Kids today would rather have a phone than a cool car. Hell, most of my 17 year olds friends don't drive yet. Some don't think they ever will! Or want to. They plan on going to a college where they can walk or ride mass transit where ever they go, and for something else will use an uber. If they want to travel, they will rent a car. When questioned on who in the hell will drive it, most never think that far. You can't rent a car if you can't drive. I think they suspect they will always have a friend or two who can drive and will be willing to do the rental and drive. Driving is a chore. An unnesessecary expense. Most major cities today are building areas that are wholly self contained. You can live, work, shop, go to the theatre or movies all within walking distance. No one will own a car. And retards are flocking to these places. I only live a few hours from the Pacific Ocean. Most of my sons friends have never seen the pacific and it's literally in their back yard. Never seen a pro football or baseball game and it's a bit over 2 hours for that. And they really don't care. They talk about comicon and goofy crap like that. When I point out you have to travel they say they'll fly in and then rent a car. It's a losing proposition. Idiotic regulations, manipulation of the money and credit, raising people who are just indifferent at best to driving, untold BILLIONS spent on worthless mass transit, refusal to update roads and highways, traffic flow patterns that in the late 1960'and early 1970's would have had people kicking ass are tolerated today as just the way it is. There not getting around it. Just one of the many reasons three score and ten years are appointed to man to live. Most of my dads generation are dead. The rest are too old to drive. Could they see the way it is today, IMO, they'd be stunned and saddened. Not many countries around the world have a road system to make driving what it is/was here. So they just don't know. It's a lost part of Americana that is slowly being eaten away.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Automotive machine shops WTH?
[Re: 496 A-body]
#2687227
08/13/19 12:47 PM
08/13/19 12:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,946 Holly/MI
Dean_Kuzluzski
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,946
Holly/MI
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I use 2 machinists. One local that does mostly commercial/construction repair & automotive. He'll tell you straight out it's not a race shop. I pay his price & don't complain. Usually done in 1-2 weeks. Last week, dropped off a 2 cyl set of sleeves, pistons and upper block, something he previously said over a year ago, he never does, after his approval to take it on, he called to pick it up in less than a week. Pressed out sleeves, bored, honed, pressed sleeves, machined surface of deck & head......$290. Seemed a tad high, but I just paid the bill and trusted his word & work. 2nd machinist is farther away, does more extensive work & takes his time. I got worried & dropped in on him. My stuff was on the bench & partially done (In progress). Which was good enough for me considering the beauty of the work & I don't want a rushjob. When he's done with that project, I got a block for him next.
R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
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Re: Automotive machine shops WTH?
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#2687255
08/13/19 01:38 PM
08/13/19 01:38 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,616 Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,616
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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I use 2 machinists. One local that does mostly commercial/construction repair & automotive. He'll tell you straight out it's not a race shop. I pay his price & don't complain. Usually done in 1-2 weeks. Last week, dropped off a 2 cyl set of sleeves, pistons and upper block, something he previously said over a year ago, he never does, after his approval to take it on, he called to pick it up in less than a week. Pressed out sleeves, bored, honed, pressed sleeves, machined surface of deck & head......$290. Seemed a tad high, but I just paid the bill and trusted his word & work. 2nd machinist is farther away, does more extensive work & takes his time. I got worried & dropped in on him. My stuff was on the bench & partially done (In progress). Which was good enough for me considering the beauty of the work & I don't want a rushjob. When he's done with that project, I got a block for him next. I'd think all that would ruin at least 3 hours. $290 seems pretty reasonable to me. Kevin
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Re: Automotive machine shops WTH?
[Re: sasquatch]
#2687408
08/13/19 07:48 PM
08/13/19 07:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,931 North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,931
North Dakota
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One even made the comment that in 10 years you will not be able to give shop machines away. Todd Well, I haven't seen any evidence of that even starting. Obsolete valve machines like an IDL that hasn't been in production for decades is still $3k+. But I don't disagree with your point. Around here we had 7 machine shops within a 75 mile radius. Now there are two.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Automotive machine shops WTH?
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2687992
08/15/19 11:33 AM
08/15/19 11:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,531 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 14,531
So. Burlington, Vt.
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The “bread and butter” work that kept the typical automotive machine shop going...... is almost non-existent anymore. Rebuilding heads and the machine work associated with engine rebuilding is now a tiny fraction of what it was 25 years ago. Automobile engines often outlast the cars they reside in, in many parts of the country these days. And the motors are now quite a bit more complicated than they used to be, and are more expensive to rebuild ....... to where the cost of doing so is well beyond what the vehicle is worth in many cases. It’s usually way cheaper to find a used motor and just swap it out.
Add in that many of these late model engines require machining processes that are beyond the capabilities of a lot of 30-40 year old machines that many of those old school shops had, and the cost for new machinery is beyond the reach of those shops, especially when you consider the return on investment with the shrinking market for the services.
There were just more shops than the current market can bear.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Automotive machine shops WTH?
[Re: rickseeman]
#2688074
08/15/19 03:23 PM
08/15/19 03:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,786 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,786
Portage,michigan
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Being in the automotive business, and knowing/ dealing with a ton of auto repair shops..... i can state more and more people are getting that big laundry list of things the car they have needs( when they cant ignore the issues any more) fixed. Rather than getting rid of the car and replacing it. Had a shop owner tell me recently those 2000-3000 dollar estimates he gives, more people than ever are saying...” go ahead and do it” that didnt used to OK it. They know what they have, and that admittedly large large bill will keep them motoring along for a couple more years.... or longer. Typically way cheaper than any other alternative.
And those saying engine rebuilding is becoming rarer are correct. People buy a used motor and have it installed. We deal a lot in Subaru’s. Couple years ago had a turbo itself grenade. Cheapest way out ended up being buying a brand new Subaru shortblock right from the dealer. Was under 2 grand. Had the heads checked, new turbo,lines cleaned, away we go.
Last edited by B3422W5; 08/15/19 03:24 PM.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car Best so far, 10.32 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.56 at 104.17
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