Automotive machine shops WTH?
#2685096
08/06/19 07:23 PM
08/06/19 07:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 370 Indy
496 A-body
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 370
Indy
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So the awesome engine machinist I have previously used and had great results with decided to actually retire, he was a retired UAW guy that worked out of a shop on his personal property. In the last few months I have tried 2 other sources in the Indy area, first guy is a "crew member" on a top fuel team, works out of a nice big building on his personal property, has nice modern equipment, we talked about what I wanted: (G3 Hemi block, align hone, bore and torque plate hone, square and parallel decks to a height dimension I provide) He says no problem, is fairly busy but will have it done in 4 weeks. 8 weeks later I call and ask WTH is going on, he says he will need the crank and rods to set the deck height, mind you I have $100k worth of of inspection equipment at my machine shop (non-automotive) and before I took the block to him I checked the crank stroke, Callies Compstar (found it was 3.992 vs the advertised 4.000), Scat rod length (6.125 was dead on) and the Diamond pistons compression height (advertised 1.110 was 1.110), while dropping everything off I stated that I wanted the decks at 9.241, with a .030 gasket that gives me .040 quench, he confirmed yes no problem, so either he didnt trust me or had no way to actually measure deck height. 4 weeks later after a lot of BS excuses I pick it up. The final bill was damn near twice what he said it would be, the weasel wasn't even there so I could call him out, I had to settle up with his what I assume was his wife. So I wrote him off as "never again " after the bait and switch stunt and discovering he torque plate honed using my torque plate and not putting a head gasket in place, in addition to re-using used torque to yield fasteners that were in place.
A few weeks later I have another G3 block just looking to have align honed, call a race engine shop, he gives me a price says about 3 days, 12 days later he calls, says it's done, however the price he quoted the day before I took it there had multiplied by 5, I ask WTH, he responds " oh, that was the price per main cap" If I tried this crap at my business I would expect to be out of business in no time. Is this crap normal??
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Re: Automotive machine shops WTH?
[Re: 496 A-body]
#2685111
08/06/19 08:17 PM
08/06/19 08:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,238 North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,238
North Central, Indiana
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It's a 50/50 and in my area many of the shops are back logged 2 weeks to 2 months. A lot of automotive machine shops have closed in the last few years, retirements and retail supported shops dropping the machining part to sell new or remanufactured components. About 3 years ago I lost my access to machinery due to a good friend retiring He would let me do quite a bit of my own machine/shop work in exchange for labor.
Last edited by Roughbird72; 08/07/19 10:25 AM.
72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
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Re: Automotive machine shops WTH?
[Re: Roughbird72]
#2685148
08/06/19 09:49 PM
08/06/19 09:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,593 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,593
Great Neck,LI,new york
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ms to have become the norm.If it's going to take a month,say so! I hate when they tell you,,,,,,,,,it will be done on Tuesday,,,,,they just don't say which Tuesday Then you still need to be able to check the work to be certain it is to your spec!
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: Automotive machine shops WTH?
[Re: hemi-itis]
#2685199
08/07/19 02:30 AM
08/07/19 02:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,328 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,328
Park Forest, IL
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Three rings of Hell, engine shop, chassis shop, body shop.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: Automotive machine shops WTH?
[Re: 496 A-body]
#2685206
08/07/19 04:47 AM
08/07/19 04:47 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219
New York
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But when you visit the shop, they're standing around talking sports. Of course it takes 3 months: they don't do anything, and when the rent comes due they pass the cost along on your bill.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Automotive machine shops WTH?
[Re: 496 A-body]
#2685243
08/07/19 09:03 AM
08/07/19 09:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,025 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,025
S.E. Michigan
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I have been pretty fortunate for the most part.
I did have one shop sit on my parts for a few weeks, and then they called me saying a bigger job came in the door that we have to prioritize in front of yours, so we won't be able to do your job. At all.
That was enough, but things turned bizarre when they then offered to take my parts somewhere else (of their choosing, somewhere that I have no idea if they're any good or totally suck), to 'help me out'. I had to wonder, what does this other place that I know nothing about kick back to them? I declined, went and picked up the stuff and started over.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Automotive machine shops WTH?
[Re: 496 A-body]
#2685318
08/07/19 12:12 PM
08/07/19 12:12 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916 usa
lewtot184
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
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[quote=496 A-body]So the awesome engine machinist I have previously used and had great results with decided to actually retire, he was a retired UAW guy that worked out of a shop on his personal property. In the last few months I have tried 2 other sources in the Indy area, first guy is a "crew member" on a top fuel team, works out of a nice big building on his personal property, has nice modern equipment, we talked about what I wanted: (G3 Hemi block, align hone, bore and torque plate hone, square and parallel decks to a height dimension I provide) He says no problem, is fairly busy but will have it done in 4 weeks. 8 weeks later I call and ask WTH is going on, he says he will need the crank and rods to set the deck height, mind you I have $100k worth of of inspection equipment at my machine shop (non-automotive) and before I took the block to him I checked the crank stroke, Callies Compstar (found it was 3.992 vs the advertised 4.000), Scat rod length (6.125 was dead on) and the Diamond pistons compression height (advertised 1.110 was 1.110), while dropping everything off I stated that I wanted the decks at 9.241, with a .030 gasket that gives me .040 quench, he confirmed yes no problem, so either he didnt trust me or had no way to actually measure deck height. 4 weeks later after a lot of BS excuses I pick it up. The final bill was damn near twice what he said it would be, the weasel wasn't even there so I could call him out, I had to settle up with his what I assume was his wife. So I wrote him off as "never again " after the bait and switch stunt and discovering he torque plate honed using my torque plate and not putting a head gasket in place, in addition to re-using used torque to yield fasteners that were in place.
A few weeks later I have another G3 block just looking to have align honed, call a race engine shop, he gives me a price says about 3 days, 12 days later he calls, says it's done, however the price he quoted the day before I took it there had multiplied by 5, I ask WTH, he responds " oh, that was the price per main cap" If I tried this crap at my business I would expect to be out of business in no time. Is this crap normal?? [/quote ] i'm living in the indy area, all my life, and to my knowledge there aren't any good machine shops.
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Re: Automotive machine shops WTH?
[Re: viperblue72]
#2685327
08/07/19 12:31 PM
08/07/19 12:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,122 Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,122
Niles , Ohio
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My machinist sadly passed away a few years ago.He was a great guy.One thing he pretty much said "If your in a hurry dont even bring it in".He did do some stuff for me quick if I asked.Let alone the prices he charged was cheap.Especially since he was a perfectionist.Sadly a friend and a great guy and machinist.His shop was always full and most all was repeat work.Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: Automotive machine shops WTH?
[Re: therocks]
#2685340
08/07/19 01:14 PM
08/07/19 01:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Virginia has this: Automobile Repair Facilities ActI don't know if the following can be applied to machine shops, but I had to pull this out w/ a body shop a couple of years ago when the final went way over 10% of the original estimate w/o any attempt by them to contact us about the additional work: "B. Where a written estimate is requested, no repair work on the motor vehicle may be undertaken, other than such diagnostic work as may be necessary for the preparation of an estimate, until the written estimate has been provided the customer and the customer has authorized the work, either in writing or orally, and no charge for repair work in excess of the written estimate by more than 10 percent or, in the case of any motor vehicle which is at least 25 model years old, 20 percent or extension of the time for the work may be made unless the additional work represented by such excess charge or the time extension has been authorized, in writing or orally, by the customer." Nope, we didn't' pay the upcharge...
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Re: Automotive machine shops WTH?
[Re: rickseeman]
#2685518
08/07/19 09:52 PM
08/07/19 09:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,163 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,163
Melbourne , Australia
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I've been fortunate that I have always had friends that had their own shops or worked in the industry, that and I am able to do some of the work myself.
That said, I've seen and heard plenty of stories about over charging or it taking forever or both. One guy I know, whilst he is very good at what he does, does nothing quickly. They do a lot of Pro Stock and Super Stock stuff here in Australia, anything outside that, usually takes forever. Blocks have sat in the shop for 2-3 years in some cases. His brother is an engine builder as well, and will often work 7 days to turn around an engine in 2 weeks
Alan Jones
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Re: Automotive machine shops WTH?
[Re: ksj]
#2685602
08/08/19 08:49 AM
08/08/19 08:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,492 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,492
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I got started building engines after getting screwed over by a shop on the first 440 I put in my cuda in 1998. After that, it was all me b/c I wanted to know exactly what I was getting. It's too easy for someone to give you a completely built engine and lie about what's in it.
I never understood why someone tells you a week and then it ends up being 2 months for no apparent reason. I ran a small machine shop for about 6 years and loved doing it. Always stuck to the price quoted and stuck w/ the time frame religiously. If it had to be adjusted, I let the customer know ahead of time. Always treated people like I wanted to be treated b/c I knew all too well how bad it is to be screwed around w/ on an expensive and important piece of your pride and joy. We didn't assemble engines there for liability reasons, but I'd do them at home on my own time. I found out real quick how expensive the equipment is and how cheap customers are...especially in this area. When you have a $45k head surfacing machine (cheaper floor demo model), charge $30-$50 per head, and people complain about that...it gets frustrating. Had to send cranks out to 2 other shops to get turned b/c we didn't have a crank grinder. Talk about an expensive piece of equipment right there.
Most of our bread and butter was rebuilding stock heads off anything and everything for local garages and dealerships. A lot of newer stuff can't be rebuilt, it's all just replaced w/ new. Pretty soon all of your business will be people rebuilding older vehicles and, of course, race engines. Here there isn't enough of either to keep a shop going (10-15 years ago anyway), so I went back to school and changed careers. The shop I was at closed 6 months after I left. Of course now there are more and more shops closing so it would seem a GOOD shop could do pretty well. I'll run into some of my old customers and they'll ask when I'm gonna open my own shop. I say as soon as I win the lottery and have money to burn. Even had a fellow racer and business owner offer to buy the equipment and set up a shop for me to run, but that never worked out. There are only 2 good local shops around here now and I'm fortunate to be friends w/ them. My stuff usually gets done quick and I try hard not to be the nightmare customer that used to do that kind of work. I have bought stuff here and there so I only have to have minimal work sent to the machine shop. The best thing is to have your own dial bore gauge and micrometers so you can check what your shop machined for you.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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