Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Automotive machine shops WTH? #2685096
08/06/19 06:23 PM
08/06/19 06:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 321
Indy
4
496 A-body Offline OP
enthusiast
496 A-body  Offline OP
enthusiast
4

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 321
Indy
So the awesome engine machinist I have previously used and had great results with decided to actually retire, he was a retired UAW guy that worked out of a shop on his personal property. In the last few months I have tried 2 other sources in the Indy area, first guy is a "crew member" on a top fuel team, works out of a nice big building on his personal property, has nice modern equipment, we talked about what I wanted:
(G3 Hemi block, align hone, bore and torque plate hone, square and parallel decks to a height dimension I provide)
He says no problem, is fairly busy but will have it done in 4 weeks. 8 weeks later I call and ask WTH is going on, he says he will need the crank and rods to set the deck height, mind you I have $100k worth of of inspection equipment at my machine shop (non-automotive) and before I took the block to him I checked the crank stroke, Callies Compstar (found it was 3.992 vs the advertised 4.000), Scat rod length (6.125 was dead on) and the Diamond pistons compression height (advertised 1.110 was 1.110), while dropping everything off I stated that I wanted the decks at 9.241, with a .030 gasket that gives me .040 quench, he confirmed yes no problem, so either he didnt trust me or had no way to actually measure deck height. 4 weeks later after a lot of BS excuses I pick it up. The final bill was damn near twice what he said it would be, the weasel wasn't even there so I could call him out, I had to settle up with his what I assume was his wife. So I wrote him off as "never again " after the bait and switch stunt and discovering he torque plate honed using my torque plate and not putting a head gasket in place, in addition to re-using used torque to yield fasteners that were in place.

A few weeks later I have another G3 block just looking to have align honed, call a race engine shop, he gives me a price says about 3 days, 12 days later he calls, says it's done, however the price he quoted the day before I took it there had multiplied by 5, I ask WTH, he responds " oh, that was the price per main cap"
If I tried this crap at my business I would expect to be out of business in no time.
Is this crap normal??

Re: Automotive machine shops WTH? [Re: 496 A-body] #2685111
08/06/19 07:17 PM
08/06/19 07:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,206
North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72 Offline
pro stock
Roughbird72  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,206
North Central, Indiana
Originally Posted by 496 A-body

Is this crap normal??


It's a 50/50 and in my area many of the shops are back logged 2 weeks to 2 months.
A lot of automotive machine shops have closed in the last few years, retirements and retail supported shops dropping the machining part to sell new or remanufactured components.

About 3 years ago I lost my access to machinery due to a good friend retiring frown
He would let me do quite a bit of my own machine/shop work in exchange for labor.

Last edited by Roughbird72; 08/07/19 09:25 AM.

72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
Re: Automotive machine shops WTH? [Re: Roughbird72] #2685148
08/06/19 08:49 PM
08/06/19 08:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,066
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis Offline
I Live Here
hemi-itis  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,066
Great Neck,LI,new york
ms to have become the norm.If it's going to take a month,say so! I hate when they tell you,,,,,,,,,it will be done on Tuesday,,,,,they just don't say which Tuesday mad
Then you still need to be able to check the work to be certain it is to your spec! shake_head


HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!!

New best 60ft,, 1.42,1/8, 6.0 @117,, 9.38 @146.75 with 6 lbs boost @3700 lbs
Re: Automotive machine shops WTH? [Re: hemi-itis] #2685199
08/07/19 01:30 AM
08/07/19 01:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,798
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
I Live Here
slantzilla  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,798
Park Forest, IL
Three rings of Hell, engine shop, chassis shop, body shop.


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: Automotive machine shops WTH? [Re: 496 A-body] #2685206
08/07/19 03:47 AM
08/07/19 03:47 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,319
New York
polyspheric Online content
master
polyspheric  Online Content
master

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,319
New York
But when you visit the shop, they're standing around talking sports.
Of course it takes 3 months: they don't do anything, and when the rent comes due they pass the cost along on your bill.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Automotive machine shops WTH? [Re: polyspheric] #2685235
08/07/19 07:41 AM
08/07/19 07:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 316
Missouri
J
jwb123 Offline
enthusiast
jwb123  Offline
enthusiast
J

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 316
Missouri
I think the issue is trying to make money without being efficient with production. They want to charge $125.00 an hour but want to put out $25 per hour in production. I had a machine shop I used for years, they had a fire and after the owner rebuilt, it was like the other posters described, everything sent came back over budget, and stuff tacked on the bill for checking this or that, which I never authorized. I have a great machinist now, older guy that has a shop at his house, we are both about the same age, so maybe we will retire at the same time.

Re: Automotive machine shops WTH? [Re: 496 A-body] #2685243
08/07/19 08:03 AM
08/07/19 08:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,035
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
I Live Here
ZIPPY  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,035
S.E. Michigan
I have been pretty fortunate for the most part.

I did have one shop sit on my parts
for a few weeks, and then they called me saying a bigger job came in the door that we have to prioritize
in front of yours, so we won't be able to do your job. At all.

That was enough, but things turned bizarre when they then offered to take my parts somewhere else (of their choosing,
somewhere that I have no idea if they're any good or totally suck), to 'help me out'.
I had to wonder, what does this other place that I know nothing about kick back to them?
I declined, went and picked up the stuff and started over.


This space intentionally left blank
Re: Automotive machine shops WTH? [Re: ZIPPY] #2685290
08/07/19 09:52 AM
08/07/19 09:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 414
st.louis,mo.
69b1dart Offline
mopar
69b1dart  Offline
mopar

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 414
st.louis,mo.
machine shops use to be good,now they suck,i live in the st.louis area,there is no good machine shops here anymore

Re: Automotive machine shops WTH? [Re: 496 A-body] #2685314
08/07/19 11:00 AM
08/07/19 11:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,231
Oregon
A
AndyF Online content
Too Many Posts
AndyF  Online Content
Too Many Posts
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,231
Oregon
Hard to say if it is normal or not but I'm not surprised that you ran into a shop like that. I work with an engine shop that does excellent work at very fair prices but I'm familiar with other shops in the local area that don't do great work even though they charge a lot more. I also deal with a local chassis shop who can build a complete race car in just a few weeks for a very fair price but I've heard stories about other shops who took months to build crap that all had to be cut back out of the car. So there are good shops and there are bad shops. You just have to figure out how to find the good ones and avoid the bad ones.

Re: Automotive machine shops WTH? [Re: 496 A-body] #2685318
08/07/19 11:12 AM
08/07/19 11:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,957
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,957
usa
[quote=496 A-body]So the awesome engine machinist I have previously used and had great results with decided to actually retire, he was a retired UAW guy that worked out of a shop on his personal property. In the last few months I have tried 2 other sources in the Indy area, first guy is a "crew member" on a top fuel team, works out of a nice big building on his personal property, has nice modern equipment, we talked about what I wanted:
(G3 Hemi block, align hone, bore and torque plate hone, square and parallel decks to a height dimension I provide)
He says no problem, is fairly busy but will have it done in 4 weeks. 8 weeks later I call and ask WTH is going on, he says he will need the crank and rods to set the deck height, mind you I have $100k worth of of inspection equipment at my machine shop (non-automotive) and before I took the block to him I checked the crank stroke, Callies Compstar (found it was 3.992 vs the advertised 4.000), Scat rod length (6.125 was dead on) and the Diamond pistons compression height (advertised 1.110 was 1.110), while dropping everything off I stated that I wanted the decks at 9.241, with a .030 gasket that gives me .040 quench, he confirmed yes no problem, so either he didnt trust me or had no way to actually measure deck height. 4 weeks later after a lot of BS excuses I pick it up. The final bill was damn near twice what he said it would be, the weasel wasn't even there so I could call him out, I had to settle up with his what I assume was his wife. So I wrote him off as "never again " after the bait and switch stunt and discovering he torque plate honed using my torque plate and not putting a head gasket in place, in addition to re-using used torque to yield fasteners that were in place.

A few weeks later I have another G3 block just looking to have align honed, call a race engine shop, he gives me a price says about 3 days, 12 days later he calls, says it's done, however the price he quoted the day before I took it there had multiplied by 5, I ask WTH, he responds " oh, that was the price per main cap"
If I tried this crap at my business I would expect to be out of business in no time.
Is this crap normal?? [/quote ] i'm living in the indy area, all my life, and to my knowledge there aren't any good machine shops.

Re: Automotive machine shops WTH? [Re: lewtot184] #2685325
08/07/19 11:24 AM
08/07/19 11:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,909
junction city oregon
V
viperblue72 Offline
top fuel
viperblue72  Offline
top fuel
V

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,909
junction city oregon
I’ve learned that just about any quality machinist is going to be buried in work and having racers all wanting things done before race weekend. And I’ve also learned to NEVER ever tell a machinist that you’re in no hurry 🤣.
Honestly most machinists that do have a fast turn around aren’t very busy and there’s usually a reason.

Re: Automotive machine shops WTH? [Re: viperblue72] #2685327
08/07/19 11:31 AM
08/07/19 11:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,830
Niles , Ohio
T
therocks Offline
Its Lost
therocks  Offline
Its Lost
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,830
Niles , Ohio
My machinist sadly passed away a few years ago.He was a great guy.One thing he pretty much said "If your in a hurry dont even bring it in".He did do some stuff for me quick if I asked.Let alone the prices he charged was cheap.Especially since he was a perfectionist.Sadly a friend and a great guy and machinist.His shop was always full and most all was repeat work.Rocky


Chrysler Firepower
Re: Automotive machine shops WTH? [Re: therocks] #2685340
08/07/19 12:14 PM
08/07/19 12:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,120
Val-haul-ass... eventually
B
BradH Online sick
I almost got away with it!
BradH  Online Sick
I almost got away with it!
B

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,120
Val-haul-ass... eventually
Virginia has this: Automobile Repair Facilities Act

I don't know if the following can be applied to machine shops, but I had to pull this out w/ a body shop a couple of years ago when the final went way over 10% of the original estimate w/o any attempt by them to contact us about the additional work:

"B. Where a written estimate is requested, no repair work on the motor vehicle may be undertaken, other than such diagnostic work as may be necessary for the preparation of an estimate, until the written estimate has been provided the customer and the customer has authorized the work, either in writing or orally, and no charge for repair work in excess of the written estimate by more than 10 percent or, in the case of any motor vehicle which is at least 25 model years old, 20 percent or extension of the time for the work may be made unless the additional work represented by such excess charge or the time extension has been authorized, in writing or orally, by the customer."

Nope, we didn't' pay the upcharge...


An unskilled person with a "cool idea", a bunch of porting tools, and a set of cylinder heads is a sure recipe for disaster.
I AM that person!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Incredible: What are you waiting for?
Tricycle kid: I don't know. Something amazing, I guess.
Mr. Incredible: Me, too, kid.
Re: Automotive machine shops WTH? [Re: viperblue72] #2685354
08/07/19 12:50 PM
08/07/19 12:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,206
North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72 Offline
pro stock
Roughbird72  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,206
North Central, Indiana
Originally Posted by viperblue72
I’ve learned that just about any quality machinist is going to be buried in work and having racers all wanting things done before race weekend. And I’ve also learned to NEVER ever tell a machinist that you’re in no hurry 🤣.
Honestly most machinists that do have a fast turn around aren’t very busy and there’s usually a reason.

iagree


72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
Re: Automotive machine shops WTH? [Re: BradH] #2685357
08/07/19 12:56 PM
08/07/19 12:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 51,351
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 51,351
Romeo MI
We have the same law here in Mich
wave

Re: Automotive machine shops WTH? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2685362
08/07/19 01:11 PM
08/07/19 01:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,543
Eagle, Idaho
Neil Offline
I Live Here
Neil  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,543
Eagle, Idaho
There are a few machine shops here that charge for work they didn't do, wreck your parts, or give you back another block that's not yours.

Paint shops are way worse. Most of them are full of losers that are there because those places don't do drugs tests and will hire anyone who looks like they might show up a few days in a row.

If you go into any shop and the trash cans are full of beer cans take your stuff elsewhere. Also, thick layers of dust on parts means they don't do anything in a hurry so keep looking.

Re: Automotive machine shops WTH? [Re: Neil] #2685367
08/07/19 01:36 PM
08/07/19 01:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,894
Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
top fuel
rickseeman  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,894
Stuttgart, Arkansas
I thought maybe Idaho would have been better than that.


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: Automotive machine shops WTH? [Re: rickseeman] #2685518
08/07/19 08:52 PM
08/07/19 08:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,650
Melbourne , Australia
LA360 Offline
master
LA360  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,650
Melbourne , Australia
I've been fortunate that I have always had friends that had their own shops or worked in the industry, that and I am able to do some of the work myself.

That said, I've seen and heard plenty of stories about over charging or it taking forever or both. One guy I know, whilst he is very good at what he does, does nothing quickly. They do a lot of Pro Stock and Super Stock stuff here in Australia, anything outside that, usually takes forever. Blocks have sat in the shop for 2-3 years in some cases. His brother is an engine builder as well, and will often work 7 days to turn around an engine in 2 weeks


Alan Jones
Re: Automotive machine shops WTH? [Re: LA360] #2685535
08/07/19 09:36 PM
08/07/19 09:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,449
Topeka Kansas
K
ksj Online content
master
ksj  Online Content
master
K

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,449
Topeka Kansas
Been lucky around here with 2 out of the 4 machine shops.The two I have luck with are ran buy guys less than 40 years old and both race.In talking with them their biggest issue is finding good workers as some times they have to turn work away due to being so busy.Dont get me started on body shop jail.

Re: Automotive machine shops WTH? [Re: ksj] #2685602
08/08/19 07:49 AM
08/08/19 07:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,487
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
an8sec70cuda  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,487
Marion, South Carolina [><]
I got started building engines after getting screwed over by a shop on the first 440 I put in my cuda in 1998. After that, it was all me b/c I wanted to know exactly what I was getting. It's too easy for someone to give you a completely built engine and lie about what's in it.

I never understood why someone tells you a week and then it ends up being 2 months for no apparent reason.
I ran a small machine shop for about 6 years and loved doing it. Always stuck to the price quoted and stuck w/ the time frame religiously. If it had to be adjusted, I let the customer know ahead of time. Always treated people like I wanted to be treated b/c I knew all too well how bad it is to be screwed around w/ on an expensive and important piece of your pride and joy. We didn't assemble engines there for liability reasons, but I'd do them at home on my own time.
I found out real quick how expensive the equipment is and how cheap customers are...especially in this area. When you have a $45k head surfacing machine (cheaper floor demo model), charge $30-$50 per head, and people complain about that...it gets frustrating.
Had to send cranks out to 2 other shops to get turned b/c we didn't have a crank grinder. Talk about an expensive piece of equipment right there.

Most of our bread and butter was rebuilding stock heads off anything and everything for local garages and dealerships. A lot of newer stuff can't be rebuilt, it's all just replaced w/ new. Pretty soon all of your business will be people rebuilding older vehicles and, of course, race engines. Here there isn't enough of either to keep a shop going (10-15 years ago anyway), so I went back to school and changed careers. The shop I was at closed 6 months after I left. Of course now there are more and more shops closing so it would seem a GOOD shop could do pretty well. I'll run into some of my old customers and they'll ask when I'm gonna open my own shop. I say as soon as I win the lottery and have money to burn. Even had a fellow racer and business owner offer to buy the equipment and set up a shop for me to run, but that never worked out.
There are only 2 good local shops around here now and I'm fortunate to be friends w/ them. My stuff usually gets done quick and I try hard not to be the nightmare customer that used to do that kind of work.
I have bought stuff here and there so I only have to have minimal work sent to the machine shop. The best thing is to have your own dial bore gauge and micrometers so you can check what your shop machined for you.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda street car...8.91 at 150.5 mph w/ 4.10s, 8.97 at 152.5 mph w/ 3.54s so far
'69 road runner 440 w/ Indy SRs
'69 road runner 440-6, 4 speed...Dad's ride
'71 Demon 340 resto project
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax...toy hauler
'16 Grand Caravan SXT...baby hauler
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Advertisement
Sponsored Link
Moparts Newest Topics
69 coronet adding factory tac to rally dash
by moparpro. 11/13/19 04:17 PM
Tesla EV pickup truck
by 360view. 11/13/19 04:06 PM
Looking for a source for power steering pumps
by Hemidavey. 11/13/19 03:41 PM
lower dash pads
by copchaser. 11/13/19 02:59 PM
Moparts Recent Posts
Stu Harmon General Forum
by a12rag. 11/13/19 05:01 PM
Collector finds 1977 Chrysler New Yorker digital clock
by larrymopar360. 11/13/19 04:53 PM
solid roller on the street?
by Jeff_383. 11/13/19 04:27 PM
69 coronet adding factory tac to rally dash
by moparpro. 11/13/19 04:17 PM

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1