Max Wedge valve spring question
#2663511
06/07/19 01:52 PM
06/07/19 01:52 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 453 Holly, MI
JackGTX440
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Does anyone know what the stock Stage I,II Max Wedge valve spring specs are? I'm putting together a stock '63 engine with a stock cam and I don't have valve springs yet. Trying to figure out what to put in it.
Thanks, Jack
Jack Irons Jr.
'67 GTX, turbo 6.1 HEMI
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Re: Max Wedge valve spring question
[Re: JackGTX440]
#2663534
06/07/19 03:19 PM
06/07/19 03:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,988 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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Original 413/426 MW specs.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Max Wedge valve spring question
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2663543
06/07/19 04:13 PM
06/07/19 04:13 PM
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Posts: 14,514 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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Interesting that the outer spring open height is listed at .500 from the closed height, while the inner is only at .430 from the closed height.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Max Wedge valve spring question
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2663576
06/07/19 05:52 PM
06/07/19 05:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,988 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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On the MW head, the inner spring doesn't sit on the same seat as the outer, there is a raised seat for the inner.
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Re: Max Wedge valve spring question
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2663583
06/07/19 06:05 PM
06/07/19 06:05 PM
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fast68plymouth
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That’s correct........ but if you have a cam with say .500 lift....... the inner step and outer step on the retainer both move .500”......... and both inner and outer springs get compressed the same amount.
Also, the diameters listed look to be “inside” diameters.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Max Wedge valve spring question
[Re: JackGTX440]
#2663601
06/07/19 07:09 PM
06/07/19 07:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,303 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I remember NHRA using 125 lbs. on the installed height and 300 lbs at .500 lift when I use to race my 1963 415 HP M.W. stocker before NHRA did away with using the stock factory spring loads specs.in their tear downs It was the same spec on both M.W. motors in 1963, not the same in 1964. I'm not sure about the 1962 M.W. specs. either On any solid lifter cam motor I build now I set the valve springs up on I use from 140 to 160 lbs. on the seats and from 325 to 375 Lbs. opened at what ever the max lift at the valves are minus the lash Make sure you have between .060 to .100 clearances between coil bind and the valve seals to the keepers or retainers, which ever one is the closest also
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/07/19 07:12 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Max Wedge valve spring question
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2663681
06/08/19 01:24 AM
06/08/19 01:24 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 453 Holly, MI
JackGTX440
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Original 413/426 MW specs. This is exactly what I was looking for! Thank you!
Jack Irons Jr.
'67 GTX, turbo 6.1 HEMI
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Re: Max Wedge valve spring question
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2663685
06/08/19 01:27 AM
06/08/19 01:27 AM
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Joined: May 2004
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JackGTX440
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That’s correct........ but if you have a cam with say .500 lift....... the inner step and outer step on the retainer both move .500”......... and both inner and outer springs get compressed the same amount.
Also, the diameters listed look to be “inside” diameters. Unless I’m missing something, this doesn’t make sense to me either!
Jack Irons Jr.
'67 GTX, turbo 6.1 HEMI
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Re: Max Wedge valve spring question
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2663687
06/08/19 01:30 AM
06/08/19 01:30 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 453 Holly, MI
JackGTX440
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I remember NHRA using 125 lbs. on the installed height and 300 lbs at .500 lift when I use to race my 1963 415 HP M.W. stocker Do you remember what spring you used?
Jack Irons Jr.
'67 GTX, turbo 6.1 HEMI
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Re: Max Wedge valve spring question
[Re: JackGTX440]
#2663729
06/08/19 09:10 AM
06/08/19 09:10 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,303 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I don't remember that far back but I'm going to say I reused the stock ones with shims Later I may have used new stock street hemi outer springs from my local Dodge dealer with Isky inners, maybe Now I would use a set from PAC or Isky or who ever you like to use. I've had a 1000 Lb.valve spring tester since 1972 or so, NHRA would use the same brand Rimac tester that I had so as long as it wasn't more pressure on the heads I was good, I don't remember them ever measuring the O.D. or the I.D of the springs back then
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Max Wedge valve spring question
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2663744
06/08/19 09:41 AM
06/08/19 09:41 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 453 Holly, MI
JackGTX440
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I don't remember that far back but I'm going to say I reused the stock ones with shims Later I may have used new stock street hemi outer springs from my local Dodge dealer with Isky inners, maybe Now I would use a set from PAC or Isky or who ever you like to use. I've had a 1000 Lb.valve spring tester since 1972 or so, NHRA would use the same brand Rimac tester that I had so as long as it wasn't more pressure on the heads I was good, I don't remember them ever measuring the O.D. or the I.D of the springs back then tt Thanks for the info man!
Jack Irons Jr.
'67 GTX, turbo 6.1 HEMI
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Re: Max Wedge valve spring question
[Re: JackGTX440]
#2663759
06/08/19 10:54 AM
06/08/19 10:54 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916 usa
lewtot184
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i found this from a june '71 bulletin #2. outer: 110lb @ 1.83", 276lb @ 1.36" inner: 31.5lb @ 1.56, 50lb @ 1.13"
cab, do you remember these old yellow springs? sure wish i'd kept some of that stuff.
if using an old 300/308-.520" lift grind you don't need a bunch of spring. it's a pretty gentle profile. the issue will be using a stock steel retainer with a more modern 1.50 and larger diameter spring.
Last edited by lewtot184; 06/08/19 10:58 AM.
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Re: Max Wedge valve spring question
[Re: lewtot184]
#2663762
06/08/19 11:13 AM
06/08/19 11:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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Looking at the specs from a John K’s bulletin......
They are specs given so someone can test the springs and verify they are still serviceable...... they don’t necessarily tell you what the installed operating loads are.
Unless there is something peculiar to the MW retainer, the typical BB retainer has a nominal .080” step, and the step on the head is usually .100-.120”........ so the inner spring installed height would be a nominal .200” shorter than the outer spring....... if no shims are used on the outer spring.
Calculating the rate from the specs provided, and averaging the mid-point between the hi and low specs....... the outer springs are 342lbs/in, and the inners are 109lbs/in. 451lbs/in for the two combined.
Installed at 1.86 outer/1.66 inner, the loads would be a nominal: 114 closed/340@.500 lift.
For comparison, the MP 933 Hemi spring is rated at 109@1.900, 432lbs/in....... so installed at the same 1.86 as the example above, it would be 126@1.86 and 342@.500 lift.
Unless it’s a numbers matching, nut and bolt type of restoration...... I wouldn’t bother trying to duplicate that OE spring arrangement. When refurbishing and upgrading OE heads, my preference is to machine down the inner step on the heads and use either a spring cup or inner spring seat , and a spring that’s currently in production and easily replaced if necessary.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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