Re: Coated steel oil pump gear
[Re: BradH]
#2660585
05/30/19 11:36 AM
05/30/19 11:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
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... they expressly state on the instructions to only use it with a new cam. That's direct from Crane, who also states not to use it w/ high-volume or high-pressure oil pumps, IIRC. ...... I overlooked mentioning this on my last post. The redesigned Milidon oil pump with the reshaped gearator is said to be significantly better at pumping more oil while using less power to do it. I used the factory cast iron top on mine.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Coated steel oil pump gear
[Re: BradH]
#2660591
05/30/19 11:57 AM
05/30/19 11:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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... they expressly state on the instructions to only use it with a new cam. I am curious how long a cam used w/ a bronze gear might still be OK to convert to one of these treated gears, considering the wear "should" be on the bronze gear up to that point. Hard to tell because of the angles of the pics... trying to see if the two gears' wear patterns are noticeably different.
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Re: Coated steel oil pump gear
[Re: Stanton]
#2660800
05/30/19 11:27 PM
05/30/19 11:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
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I called Milodon a few years back. They advertise that pump moves 19 GPM,so I asked if that was at idle or 7000 rpm. It was that was at a constant 3000 rpm. They also said @ 7000 rpm is was moving 24 GPM. Have been using one on my street driven brick for almost 30 years!
Last edited by hemi-itis; 05/30/19 11:28 PM.
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: Coated steel oil pump gear
[Re: hemi-itis]
#2661248
06/01/19 03:45 PM
06/01/19 03:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848 Memphis
HemiRick
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
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Since its driven by the cam its going half crank speed, so unless the engine revs to 14,000 the pump will never see 7000 rpm.
Take care, Rick 68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: Coated steel oil pump gear
[Re: hemi-itis]
#2661489
06/02/19 11:33 AM
06/02/19 11:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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I called Milodon a few years back. They advertise that pump moves 19 GPM,so I asked if that was at idle or 7000 rpm. It was that was at a constant 3000 rpm. They also said @ 7000 rpm is was moving 24 GPM. Have been using one on my street driven brick for almost 30 years! How does that compare to an OEM-type high volume pump? And at some point I have to believe more isn't better because the oil system simply can't move any more volume because of all the internal restrictions...
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Re: Coated steel oil pump gear
[Re: BradH]
#2661597
06/02/19 05:20 PM
06/02/19 05:20 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,874 Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,874
Ontario, Canada
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And at some point I have to believe more isn't better because the oil system simply can't move any more volume because of all the internal restrictions... Its when you lose those restrictions that the HV pump comes into play. More bearing clearance, full time top end oiling, pressurized roller lifters, pushrod oiling, full roller rockers, etc.. The downside is if you're going o move more volume you damn well better have the volume to move. A HV pump will drain a stock big block or hemi/six pack pan in the quarter mile. Anything less than a seven quart pan and you're just beggin' for trouble.
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Re: Coated steel oil pump gear
[Re: Stanton]
#2661651
06/02/19 09:11 PM
06/02/19 09:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,204 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,204
Bend,OR USA
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[ Its when you lose those restrictions that the HV pump comes into play. More bearing clearance, full time top end oiling, pressurized roller lifters, pushrod oiling, full roller rockers, etc.. The downside is if you're going o move more volume you damn well better have the volume to move. A HV pump will drain a stock big block or hemi/six pack pan in the quarter mile. Anything less than a seven quart pan and you're just beggin' for trouble. [/quote] I used a Melling hi volume oil pump with a 1970/71 Mopar Hemi/6 pack 6 quart oil pan with Indy SR heads oiling the rockers full time with .0034 rod bearing clearances, .0042+ main bearing clearances in a 400 block with solid roller lifters with no lifter bushings, it would cross the 1/4 mile finish line at or close to 7000 RPM and not have any oil pressure problems until I let it get down one quart low down to the add mark at the races It would start to loose oil pressure after I let off about 100 to 200 feet past the finish line, if I tap the gas a little bit it would get the oil pressure back sooner than let it slow down in gear all the way to the turn off It wouldn't loose oil pressure ever with the oil pan full up near the full mark with 6 quarts in those pans I do build and use crankshaft scrapers on all my motors now
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Coated steel oil pump gear Update
[Re: second 70]
#2676229
07/10/19 12:05 PM
07/10/19 12:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Got any pics that show the cam gear teeth more clearly? I'm interested in seeing how sharp vs beveled the edges of the teeth are, since you're running that style of pump gear. I "think" they appear to have a noticeable bevel, based on my trying to your pics closely. If it does start get thinner like a bronze gear wears "normally", that's what bothers me. Bronze particles floating in the oil until they get trapped in the filter bother me a He11uva lot less than the idea of steel (iron?) particles doing the same thing.
Last edited by BradH; 07/10/19 12:10 PM.
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Re: Coated steel oil pump gear Update
[Re: second 70]
#2676237
07/10/19 12:19 PM
07/10/19 12:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
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How much gap are you running between the top of the gear and the shaft collar? It looks excessive to me. I've found on my stuff that if there's an excessive amount of up and down free play, the drive gear can change position too much in relation to the cam gear and it contributes significantly to gear wear, especially on bronze gears.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Coated steel oil pump gear Update
[Re: jbc426]
#2676242
07/10/19 12:38 PM
07/10/19 12:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,708 central il.
second 70
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,708
central il.
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Yes too much clearance on the shaft collar I hadn't corrected it when I went from bronze to steel. I plan to fix that. Brad no sharp edges on cam or gear. Had a friend who build's silver crown race engines look it over and when I asked him about it said I was nuts and the cam didn't have any wear on the teeth.
Last edited by second 70; 07/10/19 12:49 PM.
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