Re: Stick racing is sooo cool!!!
[Re: quickd100]
#2647220
04/20/19 12:20 PM
04/20/19 12:20 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719
Bend,OR USA
|
I don't hate myself enough to run a 4-spd. I recovered from it , love those automatic once you get the good parts for them also
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
|
|
|
Re: Stick racing is sooo cool!!!
[Re: weedburner]
#2647307
04/20/19 04:32 PM
04/20/19 04:32 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,289 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
|
Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,289
Fulton County, PA
|
We have a car I've helped with, 9.30s in good air, will go mid 1.20s in 60 if he wants it to, 3500# or so, 4 link, good parts, G-Force clutchless 5 speed. Dead hooks and repeats like a dragster when everyone else is b!+@#ing about the track. 2 words, Racepak, video.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
|
|
|
Re: Stick racing is sooo cool!!!
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2647546
04/21/19 12:39 PM
04/21/19 12:39 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,793 Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar
master
|
master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,793
Mt.Gilead, Ohio
|
Awesome! I'd love to be able to run stick car more frequently, but I just wouldn't be able to break anything. Lol.
1969 Dart GTS 340 1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96 1999 Dodge Dakota R/T RC 2015 Dodge Dart GT 2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn
|
|
|
Re: Stick racing is sooo cool!!!
[Re: fullmetaljacket]
#2647740
04/22/19 09:56 AM
04/22/19 09:56 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
|
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
|
I used to run a stick car on the streets many, many moons ago and it was the best fun that I could remember to boast about. . I loved driving/racing a stick car on the street, but was never able to cut a competitive light with one at the track. My lack of consistency was sad, but running real street tires didn't help the problem.
|
|
|
Re: Stick racing is sooo cool!!!
[Re: BradH]
#2647812
04/22/19 12:32 PM
04/22/19 12:32 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,973 MI, usa
dvw
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,973
MI, usa
|
I used to run a stick car on the streets many, many moons ago and it was the best fun that I could remember to boast about. . I loved driving/racing a stick car on the street, but was never able to cut a competitive light with one at the track. My lack of consistency was sad, but running real street tires didn't help the problem. I ran My wife's 4 speed Challenger for a year while building my racecar. I couldn't cut a light either. Then I fabricated a adjustable clutch stop. Adjusted the stop so the pedal didn't go all the way to the floor. Night and day difference. Doug
|
|
|
Re: Stick racing is sooo cool!!!
[Re: weedburner]
#2647962
04/22/19 08:52 PM
04/22/19 08:52 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 894 Oh
parksr5
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 894
Oh
|
Seems most in this thread haven't figured it out yet, doesn't have to be as hard or expensive as it may seem.
Under about 800hp, $900 can get you a flywheel/PP/disc that can get the job done. Just as quick if not quicker than an automatic, while being easier on trans/driveline parts. The key is adding a clutch hit controller, which enables you to match the hit of that clutch to the engine. You will then be able to dead hook the launch without bogging the engine, which is far more consistent than chasing track conditions for just the right amount of wheelspin. And you will be able do it with an 833.
If you want to know what a clutch hit controlled dead hook launch looks like, check out the heads-up pro-tree NMRA Coyote Stock class. Automatics and trans brakes are legal there, but you won't find any.
Grant Unless something has changed, during the last NMRA event that I attended, (which was 3-4 years ago) I had a conversation with one of the Coyote Stock drivers specifically regarding the transmissions they run. The guy I spoke with indicated that most of them run a g-force, TKO or some type self built/concocted T5. I inquired on how long the service life is and he indicated that it's normally one weekend event, sometimes less. He also indicated that there was one auto running that weekend but, it was about 2 tenths off the pace. To be competitive in the class, I understand the need to run a stick but, for a bracket car, I could not see changing the transmission after every event and rebuilding the one that came out of the car (I think most of these guys have more than one). I have two friends that run at these same events in another class and run similar times as the Coyote Stock guys. One has a c4 and the other, a c5. They normally run their transmissions for 5-7 years before a rebuild. For the masses, is it that much more fun for the work and money that's required? For some, maybe but, not for me. This is coming from a former "Don't have a clutch, then you don't have much" or "real men drive cars with 3 pedals" type of guy. Not anymore, give me a C4, 727 or T400 any day. FYI- I still have 2 stick cars.
|
|
|
Re: Stick racing is sooo cool!!!
[Re: parksr5]
#2648000
04/22/19 10:30 PM
04/22/19 10:30 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
|
master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
|
Seems most in this thread haven't figured it out yet, doesn't have to be as hard or expensive as it may seem.
Under about 800hp, $900 can get you a flywheel/PP/disc that can get the job done. Just as quick if not quicker than an automatic, while being easier on trans/driveline parts. The key is adding a clutch hit controller, which enables you to match the hit of that clutch to the engine. You will then be able to dead hook the launch without bogging the engine, which is far more consistent than chasing track conditions for just the right amount of wheelspin. And you will be able do it with an 833.
If you want to know what a clutch hit controlled dead hook launch looks like, check out the heads-up pro-tree NMRA Coyote Stock class. Automatics and trans brakes are legal there, but you won't find any.
Grant Unless something has changed, during the last NMRA event that I attended, (which was 3-4 years ago) I had a conversation with one of the Coyote Stock drivers specifically regarding the transmissions they run. The guy I spoke with indicated that most of them run a g-force, TKO or some type self built/concocted T5. I inquired on how long the service life is and he indicated that it's normally one weekend event, sometimes less. He also indicated that there was one auto running that weekend but, it was about 2 tenths off the pace. To be competitive in the class, I understand the need to run a stick but, for a bracket car, I could not see changing the transmission after every event and rebuilding the one that came out of the car (I think most of these guys have more than one). I have two friends that run at these same events in another class and run similar times as the Coyote Stock guys. One has a c4 and the other, a c5. They normally run their transmissions for 5-7 years before a rebuild. For the masses, is it that much more fun for the work and money that's required? For some, maybe but, not for me. This is coming from a former "Don't have a clutch, then you don't have much" or "real men drive cars with 3 pedals" type of guy. Not anymore, give me a C4, 727 or T400 any day. FYI- I still have 2 stick cars. If they are breaking gear boxes like that, it's the clutch, every time. I realize those guys are limited by the junk clutches those cars come with, but they don't make that much power. It's junk clutches that kill parts.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
|
|
|
Re: Stick racing is sooo cool!!!
[Re: madscientist]
#2648135
04/23/19 12:17 PM
04/23/19 12:17 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,289 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
|
Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,289
Fulton County, PA
|
If they are breaking gear boxes like that, it's the clutch, every time. I realize those guys are limited by the junk clutches those cars come with, but they don't make that much power. It's junk clutches that kill parts. A good clutch will break parts just as fast, maybe faster, if the operator doesn't know how to run it. Something has to slip somewhere or it will break and/or bend stuff.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
|
|
|
Re: Stick racing is sooo cool!!!
[Re: parksr5]
#2648144
04/23/19 12:34 PM
04/23/19 12:34 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 104 Washington
weedburner
member
|
member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 104
Washington
|
Seems most in this thread haven't figured it out yet, doesn't have to be as hard or expensive as it may seem.
Under about 800hp, $900 can get you a flywheel/PP/disc that can get the job done. Just as quick if not quicker than an automatic, while being easier on trans/driveline parts. The key is adding a clutch hit controller, which enables you to match the hit of that clutch to the engine. You will then be able to dead hook the launch without bogging the engine, which is far more consistent than chasing track conditions for just the right amount of wheelspin. And you will be able do it with an 833.
If you want to know what a clutch hit controlled dead hook launch looks like, check out the heads-up pro-tree NMRA Coyote Stock class. Automatics and trans brakes are legal there, but you won't find any.
Grant Unless something has changed, during the last NMRA event that I attended, (which was 3-4 years ago) I had a conversation with one of the Coyote Stock drivers specifically regarding the transmissions they run. The guy I spoke with indicated that most of them run a g-force, TKO or some type self built/concocted T5. I inquired on how long the service life is and he indicated that it's normally one weekend event, sometimes less. He also indicated that there was one auto running that weekend but, it was about 2 tenths off the pace. To be competitive in the class, I understand the need to run a stick but, for a bracket car, I could not see changing the transmission after every event and rebuilding the one that came out of the car (I think most of these guys have more than one). I have two friends that run at these same events in another class and run similar times as the Coyote Stock guys. One has a c4 and the other, a c5. They normally run their transmissions for 5-7 years before a rebuild. For the masses, is it that much more fun for the work and money that's required? For some, maybe but, not for me. This is coming from a former "Don't have a clutch, then you don't have much" or "real men drive cars with 3 pedals" type of guy. Not anymore, give me a C4, 727 or T400 any day. FYI- I still have 2 stick cars. In 2015, the only Coyote Stock racer using the ClutchTamer was Jacob Lamb. He's the guy who installed a factory "HOOD" release handle on the 'tamer and flew under the radar for a while. At the time, it was common for the typical CS racer to have the transmission/clutch out of the car several times during an event and broken transmissions were common. Jacob never broke another T5 after the 'Tamer was installed, and ended up season champ. In 2016, Coyote Stock racer Carlos Sobrino also started using the 'tamer and began setting sealed engine records. The 'tamer reduced his need for clutch maintenance to the point where there was little need to pull the transmission during an event. At that point other racers started to notice, but broken transmissions had been so common in the class that NMRA amended the rules to allow the DR4 and G101A. Fast forward to the 2017 season, by August there were around CS 10 racers that were using the 'tamer. Everything was going smooth and 'tamer customers were winning almost all the races, until a couple Black Magic sponsored racers complained to NMRA that some racers were using the 'tamer which they thought was cheating. There were some meetings, then on Sept 12 NMRA posted a rules clarification that effectively made the tamer illegal. When those 'tamer users got wind of the change, there was a Coyote Stock mutiny with many threatening to quit. The change meant the 'tamer users, who by now many had gotten their own clutch sponsors, would likely have go back to using the special Black Magic counterweighted pressure plate. The 'tamer saved them a lot of money and work, and they did not want to go back to the high maintenance program of pulling the trans several times a weekend for clutch maintenance. On Sept 13 NMRA had an emergency meeting to address the issue, and the amendment was re-written to specifically allow use of an un-modified ClutchTamer. I should mention that I have never been to an NMRA race, and have never even been face to face with any of the NMRA racers or officials. I don't sponsor anyone in the class, nor do I offer any contingencies. Those guys use my 'tamer only because it makes them more consistent and saves them money. Grant
|
|
|
Re: Stick racing is sooo cool!!!
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2648166
04/23/19 01:20 PM
04/23/19 01:20 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
|
master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
|
If they are breaking gear boxes like that, it's the clutch, every time. I realize those guys are limited by the junk clutches those cars come with, but they don't make that much power. It's junk clutches that kill parts. A good clutch will break parts just as fast, maybe faster, if the operator doesn't know how to run it. Something has to slip somewhere or it will break and/or bend stuff. I totally agree. Some guys can break water with no tools. Those people you can't help.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
|
|
|
Re: Stick racing is sooo cool!!!
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2648227
04/23/19 05:27 PM
04/23/19 05:27 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 690 New Hampshire, USA
oldiron
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 690
New Hampshire, USA
|
Just watched, very cool. I do like watching both the autos and sticks race. But there is no doubt the stick cars are more fun to watch. Anything can happen even after the launch. Dry hops are hard on clutches, transmissions, rears, unibodies, springs,...........
66 Belvedere Vert, 4 Speed/Jerico, slowly, very slowly, getting faster - NA LD Wedge New New Best: 10.56 @129 68 B'cuda 4 gear Jerico - Another New Best of 9.86 & Trying to slow up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4jDLKwd9Gs
|
|
|
Re: Stick racing is sooo cool!!!
[Re: oldiron]
#2648480
04/24/19 02:22 PM
04/24/19 02:22 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,847 N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,847
N.E. Ohio
|
Didn't know he was the "engine guy"you were referring to that was ill. Watched them race at Quaker for many years. That old Dodge ramp truck and those high winding fast Darts. Sorry to hear
70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas 9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ! 2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
|
|
|
|
|