Re: 600 HP THRU 518
[Re: MoparBilly]
#2645105
04/14/19 06:56 PM
04/14/19 06:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,801 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Master of nothing...
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Master of nothing...
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,801
Benton, IL.
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The biggest down side to the GV is that the OD ratio is not near as good as the 500/518 OD ratio.
Master, again and still
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Re: 600 HP THRU 518
[Re: A/MP]
#2645154
04/14/19 08:55 PM
04/14/19 08:55 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219
New York
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Just a comment? All transmissions get a terrific BANG on the shift (slightly reduced by a loose converter), which beats up the friction material, loads the anchor points, etc. and also shocks the entire chassis. Oh, that's why the car jumps, tries to climb a tree, blah, on the 1-2! Has anyone dealt with this? My Lexus DD has factory spark retard to kill some power on the shift using a signal from the shift solenoid. Helps, not adjustable. An MSD box could do this if it could "see" pressure applied/released on gear change inside a 727 valve body, if some clever person could find a place to tap in? On the linkage might work with manual VB but you'd have to estimate and program the retard time in .001 seconds, etc.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: 600 HP THRU 518
[Re: polyspheric]
#2645207
04/14/19 10:53 PM
04/14/19 10:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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Just a comment? All transmissions get a terrific BANG on the shift (slightly reduced by a loose converter), which beats up the friction material, loads the anchor points, etc. and also shocks the entire chassis. Oh, that's why the car jumps, tries to climb a tree, blah, on the 1-2! Has anyone dealt with this? My Lexus DD has factory spark retard to kill some power on the shift using a signal from the shift solenoid. Helps, not adjustable. An MSD box could do this if it could "see" pressure applied/released on gear change inside a 727 valve body, if some clever person could find a place to tap in? On the linkage might work with manual VB but you'd have to estimate and program the retard time in .001 seconds, etc. Used to do this on 1-2 for .5 seconds(-10 degrees) found no benefit on the 2-3. I just used micro switches on my shifter.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: 600 HP THRU 518
[Re: polyspheric]
#2645288
04/15/19 09:38 AM
04/15/19 09:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,801 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Master of nothing...
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Master of nothing...
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,801
Benton, IL.
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Too hard a 1-2 shift and banging into reverse were 2 things I asked A&A to address when they built my 518 valve body. They did and I am very happy with the results. The 1-2 shift is firm, but I no longer worry about pulling the tires loose at the shift. And it now goes into reverse like it goes into forward, smooth with no banging even with the higher idle.
So yes, it can be done.
Master, again and still
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Re: 600 HP THRU 518
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2645319
04/15/19 11:04 AM
04/15/19 11:04 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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What is different in the diesel trans that it can take the high loads.. is it the valve body or something else.. I never messed any diesel auto stuff.. just my stick diesel My main concern is why it can take the loads in OD when the 518 cant
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 04/15/19 11:17 AM.
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Re: 600 HP THRU 518
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2645346
04/15/19 11:47 AM
04/15/19 11:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,801 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Master of nothing...
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Master of nothing...
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,801
Benton, IL.
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As with our 727s, line pressure and valve body play a big role. And really, much of what we do for the 727 applies to the 518. The OD unit does need some attention, but nothing radical. Good clutches, more spring pressure and line pressure, proper clearances, and maybe a better bearing and cooling make the OD unit more durable.
I used a number of internet sources for my build. PATC being one that comes to mind. A Google search will bring up a number of build threads and parts sources. Don't forget to look at what the truck guys are doing. They have spent a bunch more time with these trannies than the car guys have.
The biggest issue I had was getting a torque converter that I liked for my use on the street. Most were just too loose for my liking. Lenny at Ultimate was the one who finally got me as close as I am going to get.
Master, again and still
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Re: 600 HP THRU 518
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2645419
04/15/19 03:15 PM
04/15/19 03:15 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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As with our 727s, line pressure and valve body play a big role. And really, much of what we do for the 727 applies to the 518. The OD unit does need some attention, but nothing radical. Good clutches, more spring pressure and line pressure, proper clearances, and maybe a better bearing and cooling make the OD unit more durable.
I used a number of internet sources for my build. PATC being one that comes to mind. A Google search will bring up a number of build threads and parts sources. Don't forget to look at what the truck guys are doing. They have spent a bunch more time with these trannies than the car guys have.
The biggest issue I had was getting a torque converter that I liked for my use on the street. Most were just too loose for my liking. Lenny at Ultimate was the one who finally got me as close as I am going to get. I have dealt with PATC while building my 518.. I did do some things differently.. mainly I used a 727 conv with a 5000 rpm stall which I have Lenny lower the stall a little for the street.. I also used the correct front pump so the conv would work.. still have most of the stock parts in the OD and the valve body.. for what I know the OD spring is pretty much the same as the diesel one so I just used the stock OD spring with the same clutches as stock.. so if I want it to hold more power what should I be changing and what kind of line pressure are you running(I thought the line pressure was just to take it out of OD and the clutches held it on thanks
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Re: 600 HP THRU 518
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2645432
04/15/19 04:18 PM
04/15/19 04:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,055 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,055
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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The diesel uses more O/D clutches (not the direct clutches, I believe they are all the same) and better planetary gears with 5 pinions. The V10 uses 5 pinion gears as well but they are helical cut and the diesels are straight cut.
Earlier versions may be different but from the 47RH and up this should be what you find.
Last edited by Guitar Jones; 04/15/19 04:19 PM.
"Come get your wife"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Front and rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: 600 HP THRU 518
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2645441
04/15/19 04:39 PM
04/15/19 04:39 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,171 Michigan
A727Tflite
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,171
Michigan
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As with our 727s, line pressure and valve body play a big role. And really, much of what we do for the 727 applies to the 518. The OD unit does need some attention, but nothing radical. Good clutches, more spring pressure and line pressure, proper clearances, and maybe a better bearing and cooling make the OD unit more durable.
I used a number of internet sources for my build. PATC being one that comes to mind. A Google search will bring up a number of build threads and parts sources. Don't forget to look at what the truck guys are doing. They have spent a bunch more time with these trannies than the car guys have.
The biggest issue I had was getting a torque converter that I liked for my use on the street. Most were just too loose for my liking. Lenny at Ultimate was the one who finally got me as close as I am going to get. I have dealt with PATC while building my 518.. I did do some things differently.. mainly I used a 727 conv with a 5000 rpm stall which I have Lenny lower the stall a little for the street.. I also used the correct front pump so the conv would work.. still have most of the stock parts in the OD and the valve body.. for what I know the OD spring is pretty much the same as the diesel one so I just used the stock OD spring with the same clutches as stock.. so if I want it to hold more power what should I be changing and what kind of line pressure are you running(I thought the line pressure was just to take it out of OD and the clutches held it on thanks If you want more capacity just build the overdrive clutch like a diesel. Line pressure is the same between diesel and gas as is the large spring people call the OD spring. That spring is the direct clutch spring. It’s used primarily for reverse but is also on in 1, 2, and third. The 47 diesel has more frictions and steels in both the direct and overdrive clutches. The old 46 diesel had an extra OD disc and same number of direct frictions as the gas. You don’t need to mess with the direct in a car unless you somehow figured out a way to haul a 20K pound trailer. The later 48 diesel has even more updates in the OD but again that is driven by the increased GVW of the truck.
Last edited by Transman; 04/15/19 06:47 PM.
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Re: 600 HP THRU 518
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2645487
04/15/19 07:22 PM
04/15/19 07:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,801 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Master of nothing...
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Master of nothing...
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,801
Benton, IL.
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There is an aftermarket heavier spring available. I used it, not saying it is even necessary, but there didn't seem to be a down side (other than a few bucks). And it seems like there was a bearing, maybe under that spring, that there was a better version of. There is a cooling mod, too that can be done to the shaft. Again, it may not be necessary, but it got it, just in case. Most of the other stuff has been covered by others here. To be honest, I don't remember the line pressure. It wasn't real high though, seems like 100lbs or so. I discussed that with A&A at the time and took their suggestion.
They also eliminated the OD servo (if that is what you call it) so it goes into OD about as firm as it goes into 3rd. A&A has experience with these valve bodies and trannies and the FMVB they did for me turned out exactly like I hoped it would. I wished everything turned out as well.
As I said before, I am very happy with the 518 in my Cuda. It is a shame though, that we have to cut and adapt a bell and have such a limited selection of street converters for stroker motors. But, in the end, I still feel it was worth the time, trouble, and money.
Master, again and still
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Re: 600 HP THRU 518
[Re: CSK]
#2645547
04/15/19 09:51 PM
04/15/19 09:51 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Was that the stronger aftermarket spring..when I get ready to pull the engine and trans I'm looking to put the diesel parts in thanks
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Re: 600 HP THRU 518
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2645554
04/15/19 10:20 PM
04/15/19 10:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904
Pattison Texas
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yes is was the stronger spring
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: 600 HP THRU 518
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2645649
04/16/19 09:07 AM
04/16/19 09:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,801 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Master of nothing...
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Master of nothing...
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,801
Benton, IL.
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How hard are you going to push it when it OD, Mr_P_Body? I don't really push mine in OD, in fact, I have an adjustable vacuum switch that drops it out of OD with a drop in cruise vacuum. Kinda like passing gear. It's actually a lot of fun with passengers. I am not afraid to push it in OD, I just don't need to.
My biggest concern was hitting the clutches in the OD unit that the lower gears must go through at the launch. I know it can handle a lot of power. But like so many other drive train components, the hit at the line will find any and all weak links. I have had it to the track a couple of times, but only made a hand full of passes. Unlike my last combo (440/499, 727) which I beat on unmercifully and therefore needed to work on regularly, this one I am not as anxious to wrench on. Just getting old and lazy, I guess.
Master, again and still
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Re: 600 HP THRU 518
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2645661
04/16/19 09:43 AM
04/16/19 09:43 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I dont pound on it in OD.. thats just for cruising .. I have a switch for the OD.. I tend to leave it on all the time unless I'm racing then I flip the OD off.. I know that OD is the weak link so I'm pretty easy on it.. I just wanted to build the OD so I could forget about it and it will hold the torque
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