big block oil pump question... updated w results
#2642814
04/08/19 04:08 PM
04/08/19 04:08 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 112 pa
gregcharger72
OP
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OP
member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 112
pa
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I've put together a new 440 build and i'm at the point of priming the oil system. the machine shop supplied a standard volume oil pump[ Melling , m-63] . I,m using driven brand 5w30 break in oil. Using a 1/2 inch electric drill i can only get 40 psi of oil pressure. The crank main bearing clearance is .0027, rod bearing .0024 .it is a solid flat tappet cam with EDM lifters , Hughes engine brand 1.6 roller rockers and 240 trick flow heads. I have oil flow out of the rocker arm assemblies as i rotate the crank. So my question is ... Is this normal / typical pressure with a standard pump ? I have always used a hv pump in the past with 60 psi or better when priming the oil system.
Last edited by gregcharger72; 04/14/19 08:38 AM.
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Re: big block oil pump question
[Re: gregcharger72]
#2642821
04/08/19 04:18 PM
04/08/19 04:18 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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Drill speed makes a big difference. A HV pump has more oil sooner,so higher oil pressure at lower RPM's.
Run it and see what you have but I'd bet your hot idle PSI will still be 40-45.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: big block oil pump question
[Re: rebel]
#2642858
04/08/19 05:14 PM
04/08/19 05:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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A quick check would be to use a 3/8 drill motor.. I have the same issues with EDM lifters.. at rpm I can only get 50psi and it doesnt matter what RPM.. it runs fine but doent get higher psi.. I have tried both the standard pump and HV with no change.. I still believe its the EDM lifters.. this is a SB but I'm sure that BB and SB are the same
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Re: big block oil pump question
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2642861
04/08/19 05:22 PM
04/08/19 05:22 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,868 Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,868
Ontario, Canada
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1/2" drills typically turn pretty slow, take the RPM of your drill and divide it in half. Probably lower than the engine will ever idle. Keep in mind that the cam turns half the speed of the crank. A 1/2 drill speed would be around 600 rpm meaning the crank would be turning 300 to achieve that. Not anywhere close to idle speed. I think the pressure you're getting is fine. I only get 25 psi when I prime mine
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Re: big block oil pump question
[Re: gregcharger72]
#2642866
04/08/19 05:30 PM
04/08/19 05:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,129 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,129
Bend,OR USA
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just looking for a response from someone with experience using or trying a standard type pump. btw the machine shop told me to run it with the standard pump and see what i have. that makes me uncomfortable. When in doubt, change it out That is my motto now, I hate it when some part fails that I had doubts about using
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: big block oil pump question
[Re: gregcharger72]
#2642868
04/08/19 05:32 PM
04/08/19 05:32 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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i did look into the drill motor rating and it is 3000 rpm. i doubt it is turning that fast loaded by the oil pump but even at half that rating say, 1500 rpm , that is 3000 rpm engine speed. and to only 40 psi with cold oil concerns me. just looking for a response from someone with experience using or trying a standard type pump. btw the machine shop told me to run it with the standard pump and see what i have. that makes me uncomfortable. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. That drill isn't turning the oil pump at 1500 RPM's. If it was, that's a 750 RPM idle and that's lower than I let anything idle with other than stock springs. You will never duplicate with a drill and a static engine what happens dynamically when the engine is running. Run it. I think pull be surprised.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: big block oil pump question
[Re: gregcharger72]
#2642879
04/08/19 05:51 PM
04/08/19 05:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,841 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,841
S.E. Michigan
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On mine I can usually achieve 70psi with a speed handle/hand tools, with a drill between 70 and 75. But I have not used a std volume pump since around 1990. What you have does seem pretty close for what it is.
Last edited by ZIPPY; 04/08/19 05:53 PM.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: big block oil pump question
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2642883
04/08/19 06:05 PM
04/08/19 06:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495 Shelby mi.
JAKE68
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
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HV pump will not change the readings. It only give more volume not pressure. barton uses standard pumps on the s/s hemi's. fire it up and then see what you have.
JAKES AUTOMOTIVE
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Re: big block oil pump question
[Re: sasquatch]
#2642901
04/08/19 06:55 PM
04/08/19 06:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,164 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,164
PA.
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It’s been awhile since I’ve tinkered with big blocks and I never really had an issues but don’t they offer a heavier spring for the oil pumps and haven’t guys shimmed their spring to raise pressure some. I know 440source offers an adjustable one.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: big block oil pump question
[Re: JAKE68]
#2642907
04/08/19 07:07 PM
04/08/19 07:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,002 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,002
Oregon
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HV pump will not change the readings. It only give more volume not pressure. barton uses standard pumps on the s/s hemi's. fire it up and then see what you have. More volume into the same restriction will increase the pressure so a HV pump will most likely increase the pressure in his engine. The only time a HV pump wouldn't increase the pressure for the OP's engine is if his current relief spring is set at 40 lbs. That seems unlikely but it could be the case. If he has a HV pump and swaps it on there I bet his pressure goes to 60+ psi.
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Re: big block oil pump question
[Re: madscientist]
#2642908
04/08/19 07:09 PM
04/08/19 07:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,002 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,002
Oregon
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i did look into the drill motor rating and it is 3000 rpm. i doubt it is turning that fast loaded by the oil pump but even at half that rating say, 1500 rpm , that is 3000 rpm engine speed. and to only 40 psi with cold oil concerns me. just looking for a response from someone with experience using or trying a standard type pump. btw the machine shop told me to run it with the standard pump and see what i have. that makes me uncomfortable. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. That drill isn't turning the oil pump at 1500 RPM's. If it was, that's a 750 RPM idle and that's lower than I let anything idle with other than stock springs. You will never duplicate with a drill and a static engine what happens dynamically when the engine is running. Run it. I think pull be surprised. If the drill is running the pump at 1500 rpm then that is the same as the engine running at 3000 rpm. The pump runs at cam speed or 1/2 of crank speed. In that case, 40 psi at 3000 rpm is pretty low. Having said that, I don't know what speed his drill is actually running at but 40 psi for cold oil is pretty low. I can usually get more than that with a speed wrench.
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Re: big block oil pump question
[Re: gregcharger72]
#2642919
04/08/19 07:40 PM
04/08/19 07:40 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
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The drill speed when loaded by oil pressure is nowhere near idle speed, if the drill does not slow down the pump is not engaged or not primed. I think you're OK but would use 5W40 after a few miles.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: big block oil pump question
[Re: polyspheric]
#2642925
04/08/19 07:53 PM
04/08/19 07:53 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,164 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,164
PA.
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I had an adjustable one one one of my pumps that I picked up
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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